Machinehead maintenance

JezWynd

One of the tuners on my recently acquired ES-125T is stiffer to turn than the others (G string) and I'm wondering if they need some attention. They are Kluson Deluxe type I think. Are the small holes visible on the rear for administering oil to them? Is there anything else that can be done to get back to top notch order, a petrol bath perhaps or similar?

Funkfingers

Grease not oil.

If you are going to bathe the mechanisms in something to thoroughly degrease them, it would be wise to protect the tuner buttons first.

JezWynd

Funkfingers said:

Grease not oil.

If you are going to bathe the mechanisms in something to thoroughly degrease them, it would be wise to protect the tuner buttons first.

Thanks Funkfingers. Is there anything apart from petrol that would do the job? Also, are the internal parts all metal, no nylon bushes or similar?

Funkfingers

Difficult to answer without precise knowledge of the production date of the Klusons. Is there anything legend stamped into the underside of the two strip baseplates?

Gagaryn

Funkfingers said:

Difficult to answer without precise knowledge of the production date of the Klusons. Is there anything legend stamped into the underside of the two strip baseplates?

I've had success cleaning out gritty klusons by washing out the mechanism with WD40 - spray straight into the hole with the straw and the dirt will come out in the flood. Then inject grease into the hole using a plastic syringe, no needle - just hold the plastic tight to the hole and the grease will fill the void. A lot will squeeze back out first time the tuner is turned when stringing but plenty will remain. I used lithium grease as it was what i had to hand.

Funkfingers

I can see that your process should work. I can also imagine that it creates a lot of mess. Probably best done with the Klusons off the guitar.

ICBM

That’s exactly what I do, and definitely off the guitar.

JezWynd

Funkfingers said:

Difficult to answer without precise knowledge of the production date of the Klusons. Is there anything legend stamped into the underside of the two strip baseplates?

They're still on the guitar. I'm in the planning stage atm. If I went with @Gagaryn's method I guess it wouldn't matter if there are nylon components in there.

When I bought the guitar seller said that they didn't think the tuners were the originals; is there any way I can tell one way or another? I'm starting to use different tunings and it would be simpler if the tuners were easier to use. They hold tuning fine once it's found but getting there is a bit of a chore. So I'm thinking I'll give them some attention and if they don't improve, then replace them.

JezWynd

Funkfingers said:

Difficult to answer without precise knowledge of the production date of the Klusons. Is there anything legend stamped into the underside of the two strip baseplates?

Pic of tuners, nothing appears on the back plate. -



I sprayed degreaser and WD40 followed by some spray can lithium grease. The cleaning process didn't reveal any muck in the housings and after reassembly they are much as they were previously so I can only assume they are low quality versions. There's a lot of variation in tension when they're off the guitar - some turn very easily but most have a heavy action. Think I might have to upgrade.

WezV

Are they consistently difficult to turn, or does it vary every 18 turns or so?


If they are not original and the clean hasnt worked I would just replace.  If they  are old and worth saving I would try a bath next, and if that doesn’t work I would look to dismantle and rebuild with new gears if needed.

JezWynd

WezV said:

Are they consistently difficult to turn, or does it vary every 18 turns or so?


If they are not original and the clean hasnt worked I would just replace.  If they  are old and worth saving I would try a bath next, and if that doesn’t work I would look to dismantle and rebuild with new gears if needed.

I couldn't honestly say that I gave them 18 consistent turns (presume that's the gear ratio?) but each one does seem fairly consistent in its action; it's just that a couple are easy/loose to turn, while the majority have a heavy action and most have a certain amount of slack. I don't think they're the originals, the shop didn't think so, but I'm not expert on these matters. Thinking I'll invest in a new set. I see that Gotoh, Grover and Kluson all make replacements.  Is there any particular brand that stands out quality wise? 

Bridgehouse

Fake58 do some nicely aged ones - I put a set on my 62 LP Special and they were very good. 

JezWynd

Bridgehouse said:

Fake58 do some nicely aged ones - I put a set on my 62 LP Special and they were very good. 

The ageing on those looks excellent. I wonder though if the ageing process affects the internal parts.

Gagaryn

Before spending any money I'd try packing them with grease and then spinning them with a powered string winder to see if they improve - 18 turns, i.e one full rotation, won't have done much to help.

Edit - just noticed the bit about the slack - think I'd go straight for replacements! :-)

JezWynd

Thanks for the input everyone. I've gone with some Kluson replacements.