Mahogany v Rosewood

thomasross20

Which is better in a live setting? 

I ask because re electrics... My basswood suhr sounds spectacular on its own but my mahogany PRS cuts through better. 

From what I recall, I prefer mahogany acoustics (to play). To listen to, I'm not sure. The bass and treble are definitely not as pronounced with mahogany. 

earwighoney

thomasross20 said:

Which is better in a live setting? 

I ask because re electrics... My basswood suhr sounds spectacular on its own but my mahogany PRS cuts through better. 

From what I recall, I prefer mahogany acoustics (to play). To listen to, I'm not sure. The bass and treble are definitely not as pronounced with mahogany. 

AKAIK, UST pickups just amplify the the sound of the soundboard so the back and sides is largely irrelevant.  When I did some work on the mixing desk for live events my ears seemed to prefer the sound of all mahogany guitars.

ArchtopDave

jellyroll said:

Thanks@AliGorie.

I’m imagining the conversation with my wife...

”Darling (for that is how I address her) I shan’t be buying any more guitars”

”Oh, good”

”From now on, I’m going to make my own. All I’ll need is a few hand tools and a workbench. And some wood of course. Some Mahogany for the back and sides. Some Spruce. Ebony for the appointments. Perhaps some Koa for the binding. Maybe an electric saw. And a router. Some chemicals for spraying the coating. And ventilation of course. And some where to hang the guitar between spray coats....”

”Jelly, just go to a shop and BUY the bloody guitar”

Win Win!

Whilst the is undoubtedly an individuality to the sound of any particular acoustic, I think that the woods used for the back and sides generally conform to a certain "sound" in relation to the wood used. I was at a Taylor guitar clinic some years ago, and there were 3 OM's which were identical apart from the Back and Sides : one had Maple, another had Rosewood, and the 3rd had Koa. The differences between the 3 were pretty distinct with the Maple being the brightest, the Koa was rather softer and less distinct in definition than the Rosewood, which had the sound that I preferred.

Regarding making your own guitar, I've made 3 guitars in the past on Mark Bailey's Build Your Own Guitar Courses, including an Acoustic, which turned out to be a really nice guitar. I posted a Thread here on the build a while back.OM Acoustic Build (Mark Bailey Course)

thomasross20

earwighoney said:

thomasross20 said:

Which is better in a live setting? 

I ask because re electrics... My basswood suhr sounds spectacular on its own but my mahogany PRS cuts through better. 

From what I recall, I prefer mahogany acoustics (to play). To listen to, I'm not sure. The bass and treble are definitely not as pronounced with mahogany. 

AKAIK, UST pickups just amplify the the sound of the soundboard so the back and sides is largely irrelevant.  When I did some work on the mixing desk for live events my ears seemed to prefer the sound of all mahogany guitars.

So a K&K wouldn't necessarily amplify any differences. Good to know! 

ToneControl

thomasross20 said:

earwighoney said:

thomasross20 said:

Which is better in a live setting? 

I ask because re electrics... My basswood suhr sounds spectacular on its own but my mahogany PRS cuts through better. 

From what I recall, I prefer mahogany acoustics (to play). To listen to, I'm not sure. The bass and treble are definitely not as pronounced with mahogany. 

AKAIK, UST pickups just amplify the the sound of the soundboard so the back and sides is largely irrelevant.  When I did some work on the mixing desk for live events my ears seemed to prefer the sound of all mahogany guitars.

So a K&K wouldn't necessarily amplify any differences. Good to know! 

I think that Tommy Emmanuel used to play an MDF Maton live to show that the pickups do almost the whole job

ToneControl

As @octatonic ; says the design makes the biggest difference.
A parlour guitar is not going to sound like a Dreadnought
12 fretted guitars sound very different, the saddle is in the centre of the vibrating part of the soundboard
Factory-made guitars are unlikely to have fine-tunings to the soundboard bracing

Given all that, once you're paying to get all that just the way you want, all that's left is to get the woods right for you
I found walnut / adirondack too bright for me, but I play fingerstyle with half-skin, half-nails
At present I'm probably most leaning to the rosewood end, and often prefer cedar tops

ToneControl

Here's some comparisons of Tayloe East India Rosewood vs Brazilian on the same models 








Thing is, I'm guessing that the Braz ones get a lot more time with a top luthier, and would assume they are more likely to have been tap-tuned

earwighoney

ToneControl said:

Thing is, I'm guessing that the Braz ones get a lot more time with a top luthier, and would assume they are more likely to have been tap-tuned

AFAIK, it's the soundboards which are tap tuned not the backs. 

FWIW, I prefered the sound of the EIR one.  IMO Taylors are voiced to be on the brighter side of things, and with the EIR it sounded brighter and clearer.  With the BRZ it was a bit too dark, almost a little muddy.

I've spent a huge amount on 'exlusive' Rosewood upgrades on guitars (I don't want to know how much) and I've come to conclusion it doesn't make as much of a difference as was worth spending the upgrades.  If I could have gone back I'd have bought the base model and spent the rest on better microphones and so on! 

ToneControl

earwighoney said:

ToneControl said:

Thing is, I'm guessing that the Braz ones get a lot more time with a top luthier, and would assume they are more likely to have been tap-tuned

AFAIK, it's the soundboards which are tap tuned not the backs. 

FWIW, I prefered the sound of the EIR one.  IMO Taylors are voiced to be on the brighter side of things, and with the EIR it sounded brighter and clearer.  With the BRZ it was a bit too dark, almost a little muddy.

I've spent a huge amount on 'exlusive' Rosewood upgrades on guitars (I don't want to know how much) and I've come to conclusion it doesn't make as much of a difference as was worth spending the upgrades.  If I could have gone back I'd have bought the base model and spent the rest on better microphones and so on! 

I'm meaning that if Taylor are asking 3x the price for the Braz, they will probably have spent more time and effort on the whole guitar, including the top

thomasross20

I've been lusting over a proper Martin, I must admit... but why... at nearly £3k and given I'm not gigging... my Larrivee does a great job. I might still go to the guitar shop this weekend for a play, though. 

Along the same lines (and sorry I know this is an acoustic forum!) I have the mahogany PRS and basswood Suhr but a mahogany Suhr would kill both them I think. But the cost would be more than I'd get for the other two combined so what's the point. Maybe better to keep the money and just play what I've got!

If playing live I would be fine just taking my Taylor Mini. Playing at home it is nice to have a proper good acoustic. Must stop these thoughts lol.

TimmyO

thomasross20 said:

I've been lusting over a proper Martin, I must admit... but why... at nearly £3k and given I'm not gigging... my Larrivee does a great job. I might still go to the guitar shop this weekend for a play, though. 

Along the same lines (and sorry I know this is an acoustic forum!) I have the mahogany PRS and basswood Suhr but a mahogany Suhr would kill both them I think. But the cost would be more than I'd get for the other two combined so what's the point. Maybe better to keep the money and just play what I've got!

If playing live I would be fine just taking my Taylor Mini. Playing at home it is nice to have a proper good acoustic. Must stop these thoughts lol.

Most sports car owners don't race, Most carbon-fibre-driver-owners only golf for fun - if you love your music and owning a Martin will help you feel good, go for it :-) 

earwighoney

thomasross20 said:

I've been lusting over a proper Martin, I must admit... but why... at nearly £3k and given I'm not gigging... my Larrivee does a great job. I might still go to the guitar shop this weekend for a play, though. 

Along the same lines (and sorry I know this is an acoustic forum!) I have the mahogany PRS and basswood Suhr but a mahogany Suhr would kill both them I think. But the cost would be more than I'd get for the other two combined so what's the point. Maybe better to keep the money and just play what I've got!

If playing live I would be fine just taking my Taylor Mini. Playing at home it is nice to have a proper good acoustic. Must stop these thoughts lol.

Tommy, 

If you have the funds to get yourself a nice Martin, then you should do it.  It doesn't matter whether you'll play it live or not.  If you can afford and it brings you pleasure then it's a worthwhile purchase. 

£3k for a Martin is a lot though.  IMO there are other avenues I'd take that might not sound 100% like a Martin but might get you most of the way there for a lot less.  Unless you really want a Martin and then look around for a S/H one. 

thomasross20

To be honest I was looking at even higher-end Larrivees and the bang for buck there is so much more!

ToneControl

thomasross20 said:

To be honest I was looking at even higher-end Larrivees and the bang for buck there is so much more!

Based on what I've tried I'd choose Larrivee over Martins at each price point

artiebear

I would totally agree with the view that high end Larrivee' guitars are superb ( had my OM10 since 1999 ), so are standard series and above Martins ( I have 4, the youngest being around 20 years old ) They just have a different voice. Larrivee guitars have superb fit and finish, so have Martins. The big thing with any acoustic is that, just like any electric it can be made to play however you want it, it just takes a few different tweaks to get there. 
As for Rosewood v Mahogany, both great choices just a different flavour.Rosewood in general seems to have a more delayed ( reverb ) response against mahogany being more direct. therefore perceivably drier. In terms of different rosewoods, my Indian R/W guitars seem to absorb more high frequency than the 4 Brazilian guitars I have. The Brazilian guitars just have more of everything across the frequency spectrum as well as having more natural reverb.
Basically, its down to the maker, the luck of the draw regarding the properties of the materials and the taste of the player as to what is best. 
Right now here in my living room there is a Sitka/Koa, a Sitka/ mahogany ( both Collings ) and my absolute favourite right now an HJ Williams German spruce / Honduras rosewood , they all sound great because the builders know what they are doing regardless of the wood choices.

thomasross20

I went to try some guitars today but annoyingly as soon as I entered the stores about 4 people pounced and spent more time talking than anything else. 

Anyway I'm not into those all-mahogany Martin's. Rosewood OO28 sounded great (very good and felt solid) bit small, prefer OOO. Best one was a 4k mahogany one, some rare old 450 year old wood. Good balance between mahogany and rosewood. Martins were expensive, big time. I just couldn't do it.

Edit - think I might be lusting for a rosewood guitar now 

TimmyO

I drove myself crazy with the whole Rosewood Vs Mahogany thing in the past. I made it worse by wanting one 'great at everything' guitar and spent too much time comparing things. 

They really are just different options. I think I'm starting to realise that 2 guitars if the same model can vary a fair bit, let alone differences in this sort of thing, so even the broad general differences can be contradicted when you get a particular guitar in your hands. 

thomasross20

Yes... I have to have the guitar I'm thinking about buying "in my hands" - you just cannot tell unless you're actually playing the thing.

earwighoney

TimmyO said:

I drove myself crazy with the whole Rosewood Vs Mahogany thing in the past. I made it worse by wanting one 'great at everything' guitar and spent too much time comparing things. 

Likewise. 

I've painfully/expensively come to the conclusion back/side woods aren't as important as I thought and there are other things which make more of a difference but the most important thing is finding the right voiced guitar for your own needs/ergonomics are the most important factor of all. 

ToneControl

thomasross20 said:

Yes... I have to have the guitar I'm thinking about buying "in my hands" - you just cannot tell unless you're actually playing the thing.

Sadly, not even then:

• the soundboard matures over months and years, can be accelerated with a Tone-Rite. You won't know what it will sound like eventually, even by trying it
• in a shop, the acoustics, background noise and string condition rarely allow a fair comparison
• your playing and ears can develop to better-use a certain guitar, hard to see that when you are trying it for the first time

This is why I usually don't buy new!