telecaster bridge pickup baseplates

axisus

I saw something about replacing a telecaster bridge pickup baseplate with a metal one - what's that all about?

OilCityPickups

Eh? A Tele bridge pickup baseplate IS metal ... steel to be precise. 

HAL9000

I’m pretty sure my 2005 US Tele doesn’t have a baseplate at all. Maybe the article you saw was suggesting fitting a baseplate if you don’t already have one.

OilCityPickups

Some of the 'plastic bobbin' rather than fibre flatwork Tele pickups ... including some of those fitted to US Fenders don't have baseplates, so retro fitting is a possibility. However those pickups also don't have the winding wire tight up to the magnet poles either ... so will never sound exactly like a conventional fibre flatwork model. Steel is the only type of baseplate worth fitting ... you see brass ones offered, but a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... so a brass one offers a bit of extra shielding ... but none of the extra inductance that a steel one gives ... as it's not ferrous! 

Alegree

Brass ones fatten the tone due to the capacitance. They do half the job of a steel one, but they do do something.

OilCityPickups

Alegree said:

Brass ones fatten the tone due to the capacitance. They do half the job of a steel one, but they do do something.

Increasing the capacitance without increasing the inductance seems a tad half arsed when steel is available cheaply enough.

Alegree

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Alegree said:

Brass ones fatten the tone due to the capacitance. They do half the job of a steel one, but they do do something.

Increasing the capacitance without increasing the inductance seems a tad half arsed when steel is available cheaply enough.

Some people don't want the increased inductance. It all comes down to taste (as does everything). 

Henrytwang

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Some of the 'plastic bobbin' rather than fibre flatwork Tele pickups ... including some of those fitted to US Fenders don't have baseplates, so retro fitting is a possibility. However those pickups also don't have the winding wire tight up to the magnet poles either ... so will never sound exactly like a conventional fibre flatwork model. Steel is the only type of baseplate worth fitting ... you see brass ones offered, but a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... so a brass one offers a bit of extra shielding ... but none of the extra inductance that a steel one gives ... as it's not ferrous! 

Yes to be true to the classic design the baseplate should be made of ferrous metal , the bridge plate should also be made from steel if you’re looking for that classic Telecaster tone.

OilCityPickups

Alegree said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Alegree said:

Brass ones fatten the tone due to the capacitance. They do half the job of a steel one, but they do do something.

Increasing the capacitance without increasing the inductance seems a tad half arsed when steel is available cheaply enough.

Some people don't want the increased inductance. It all comes down to taste (as does everything). 

Interesting that Fender have never fitted brass baseplates, nor Lollar, nor Bare Knuckle, nor Seymour Duncan, nor Kent Armstrong ... all lacking in taste clearly :-)

axisus

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Eh? A Tele bridge pickup baseplate IS metal ... steel to be precise. 

Actually it all came from investigating "Q pickups'. I like the look of his Tele pickups, I checked out what people were saying on t'interweb and some mentioned that it was a shame that he didn't do a metal baseplate. The base is the same stuff as the 'top' 

OilCityPickups

Bottom and top flat-work are vulcanised fibre, as with most Tele (and Strat) pickups (but in a fancy colour) ... baseplate goes under the bottom flat-work. Not a tough job to fit a baseplate to one.  

axisus

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bottom and top flat-work are vulcanised fibre, as with most Tele (and Strat) pickups (but in a fancy colour) ... baseplate goes under the bottom flat-work. Not a tough job to fit a baseplate to one.  

Forgive my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of fitting one?

Funkfingers

axisus said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bottom and top flat-work are vulcanised fibre, as with most Tele (and Strat) pickups (but in a fancy colour) ... baseplate goes under the bottom flat-work. Not a tough job to fit a baseplate to one.  

Forgive my ignorance, but what would be the purpose of fitting one?

Er ...

TheGuitarWeasel said:

... a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... 

In addition, the air gap between the bobbin and the plate can induce microphonic squeals. Perfect for Roy Buchanan imitations.

axisus

Funkfingers said:

Er ...

TheGuitarWeasel said:

... a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... 

With all respect to your two good selves - that bit of science didn't actually tell a thick twonk like me how a tele would sound different sonically!

microphonic squeals - a good thing??

OilCityPickups

Okay ... when you add extra steel in the magnetic field you get two major effects: Firstly the pickup becomes ... for the want of a better word, more efficient. A pickup works by induction, and adding more steel makes it more inductive. So you get a small power boost ... but more, you get a boost to the frequencies that give 'twang' and to the mid range.
Leo Fender originally added a baseplate as he was working with weak assed alnico 3 magnets ... and a steel plate gave them a boost ... the side effect was it made the tele sound like a Tele.

axisus

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Okay ... when you add extra steel in the magnetic field you get two major effects: Firstly the pickup becomes ... for the want of a better word, more efficient. A pickup works by induction, and adding more steel makes it more inductive. So you get a small power boost ... but more, you get a boost to the frequencies that give 'twang' and to the mid range.
Leo Fender originally added a baseplate as he was working with weak assed alnico 3 magnets ... and a steel plate gave them a boost ... the side effect was it made the tele sound like a Tele.

Thanks!

Funkfingers

Wax between the bobbin and plate fills the air gap and eliminates squeal from that source.

Being an old fart, my brain approaches the sound question from the other end. I consider the sound with a baseplate to be normal. To my ears, the sound without the plate lacks some of the edginess that I want to hear. (I am heavily biased towards the early Blackguard Fender electric Spanish guitar.)

At the behest of Jerry Donahue, Fender attempted to build a signature Stratocaster that combined Strat and Tele sounds in one guitar. Part of their solution was to wind the bridge position pickup with the copper wire gauge associated with Telecasters and add a steel plate on the underside. It almost succeeds. The Seymour Duncan production line version of this pickup is called the APST-1 Twangbanger. 

Adam_MD

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Some of the 'plastic bobbin' rather than fibre flatwork Tele pickups ... including some of those fitted to US Fenders don't have baseplates, so retro fitting is a possibility. However those pickups also don't have the winding wire tight up to the magnet poles either ... so will never sound exactly like a conventional fibre flatwork model. Steel is the only type of baseplate worth fitting ... you see brass ones offered, but a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... so a brass one offers a bit of extra shielding ... but none of the extra inductance that a steel one gives ... as it's not ferrous! 

@TheGuitarWeasel what about the neck pickup cover?  I frequently see those listed as chrome covered or nickel plated brass (I think).  should they be steel or is brass traditional for the neck cover?  

bbill335

Funkfingers said:

... a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... 

In addition, the air gap between the bobbin and the plate can induce microphonic squeals. Perfect for Roy Buchanan imitations.

Easy fix! the plates come off with minimal hairdryer heat, some strong carpet tape does a good job of adhering AND insulating.

OilCityPickups

Adam_MD said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Some of the 'plastic bobbin' rather than fibre flatwork Tele pickups ... including some of those fitted to US Fenders don't have baseplates, so retro fitting is a possibility. However those pickups also don't have the winding wire tight up to the magnet poles either ... so will never sound exactly like a conventional fibre flatwork model. Steel is the only type of baseplate worth fitting ... you see brass ones offered, but a baseplate with a Tele pickup is all about increasing the ferrous mass in the magnetic field ... so a brass one offers a bit of extra shielding ... but none of the extra inductance that a steel one gives ... as it's not ferrous! 

@TheGuitarWeasel what about the neck pickup cover?  I frequently see those listed as chrome covered or nickel plated brass (I think).  should they be steel or is brass traditional for the neck cover?  

Traditional is a nickel plated heavy brass cover that made the pickup sound as if it's covered with a woolly blanket.
Nowadays us pickup makers tend to use nickel plated nickel ... as nickel is much more transparent to the pickup's magnetic field ... and thus you loose less treble. Allowing you to roll off a bit of treble at the pot if you want a trad tele neck sound ... but giving you the option of more crispness out of the box.
If you steel covered a Tele pickup you'd get no sound :-)

Adam_MD

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Traditional is a nickel plated heavy brass cover that made the pickup sound as if it's covered with a woolly blanket.
Nowadays us pickup makers tend to use nickel plated nickel ... as nickel is much more transparent to the pickup's magnetic field ... and thus you loose less treble. Allowing you to roll off a bit of treble at the pot if you want a trad tele neck sound ... but giving you the option of more crispness out of the box.
If you steel covered a Tele pickup you'd get no sound :-)

Excellent thanks for that.