Tell me again why Gibson get stick over pricing?

Legionreturns

...but everyone seems to leave PRS alone 

2018 Paul Reed Smith Private Stock Singlecut McCarty 594 McCarty Glow Massive Flametop! LP SLAYER! https://applink.reverb.com/item/12698088-2018-paul-reed-smith-private-stock-singlecut-mccarty-594-mccarty-glow-massive-flametop-lp-slayer

Over 8 grand for a McCarty? Which will then immediately lose half it's value.

Don't get me wrong, I like a nice PRS, but that's insane!

Fretwired

Legionreturns said:

...but everyone seems to leave PRS alone 

2018 Paul Reed Smith Private Stock Singlecut McCarty 594 McCarty Glow Massive Flametop! LP SLAYER! https://applink.reverb.com/item/12698088-2018-paul-reed-smith-private-stock-singlecut-mccarty-594-mccarty-glow-massive-flametop-lp-slayer

Over 8 grand for a McCarty? Which will then immediately lose half it's value.

Don't get me wrong, I like a nice PRS, but that's insane!

I agree. That guitar is just fugly IMHO. I guess dentists earn a lot of money .. ;-)

terada

Agreed. Guitars have become silly money. Over 3 grand for a bolt on that's been bashed with some keys and dropped a few times 

Whitecat

Well, from where I'm sitting no one really "leaves PRS alone", they get as much finger-pointing as anyone...

But in any case, what are you comparing that PRS to? A run-of-the-mill R8 or even R9 (especially at the "current" UK market value) isn't fair. Comparing to something like this is more accurate: https://reverb.com/item/14373268-gibson-custom-shop-historic-1959-les-paul-vos-hand-selected-killer-top-brazilian-rosewood-board-dirt

pmbomb

Hideous. IMHO!

mli3

urghhh. looks horrid. That picture confirms why i much prefer plaintops !!

mikeyrob73

not fugly at all, i think its very pretty, would i buy one? would i bollox 

crunchman

Run of the mill R8 was around £4k a few weeks ago, before recent events.  Maybe it was overpriced, which is why it has had to be reduced.  A run of the mill PRS 594 can be had for around £3.3k.  You will pay more for a 10 top on the PRS, but you pay more for a R9 with nice flames as well.  They are in the same ballpark.

That private stock PRS isn't that different from what you would pay for a collector's choice or Murphy aged Les Paul.

I wouldn't spend £5k on a new guitar.  I did just spend a lot on one (like a lot of others here) but £5k seems too much.  If I had the money, then getting a Feline Lion, or maybe an Eggle, custom built for me would be nice, but I think that would come in slightly south of £5k.

Legionreturns

I'm not comparing it to anything in particular, just saying that's a ludicrous amount of money for a new guitar. It wouldn't matter who was charging it. 

I think £3300 for a standard McCarty is too much as well 

terada

I know there must be some underlying manufacturing reason, but '10-top' always makes me think of top trumps...


Mine has 24 frets, how many does yours have?

WezV

Is calling it a "LP Slayer" a really good advert for Gibson?    

Its a great thing to say about a cheaper guitar (not every epiphone ever sold on ebay).  Not sure it applies when you are charging twice as much as a high end Gibson.

FelineGuitars

crunchman said:

Run of the mill R8 was around £4k a few weeks ago, before recent events.  Maybe it was overpriced, which is why it has had to be reduced.  A run of the mill PRS 594 can be had for around £3.3k.  You will pay more for a 10 top on the PRS, but you pay more for a R9 with nice flames as well.  They are in the same ballpark.

That private stock PRS isn't that different from what you would pay for a collector's choice or Murphy aged Les Paul.

I wouldn't spend £5k on a new guitar.  I did just spend a lot on one (like a lot of others here) but £5k seems too much.  If I had the money, then getting a Feline Lion, or maybe an Eggle, custom built for me would be nice, but I think that would come in slightly south of £5k.

And they are quite a guitar for the money 

Sporky

terada said:

I know there must be some underlying manufacturing reason, but '10-top' always makes me think of top trumps...


Mine has 24 frets, how many does yours have?

One of mine has 25. I'm winning unless Bucket turns up with his Ibanez.

WezV

Sporky said:

terada said:

I know there must be some underlying manufacturing reason, but '10-top' always makes me think of top trumps...


Mine has 24 frets, how many does yours have?

One of mine has 25. I'm winning unless Bucket turns up with his Ibanez.

Do doublenecks count?

VimFuego

TBH I find the prices of a lot of US made instruments to be waaaaay over the top. Just looking at the fender american original and new they go in the region of £1500. I dunno, seems an awful lot for a bolt on made out of stuff in parts bins to me. 

EDIT: I'd love to know how much of that is guitar and labour and real things and how much is marketing and logo. 

guitars4you

VimFuego said:

TBH I find the prices of a lot of US made instruments to be waaaaay over the top. Just looking at the fender american original and new they go in the region of £1500. I dunno, seems an awful lot for a bolt on made out of stuff in parts bins to me. 

EDIT: I'd love to know how much of that is guitar and labour and real things and how much is marketing and logo. 

it has never been any different - £140/150 in 1962 for a Strat - That represented around 14-15 weeks wages based on the average wage at the time - A Custom Shop Strat, which effectively is the same/similar grade of model as an original 62 model is £3200 ish - put £150 and 1962 into a inflation calculator and you'll get something around £3200 ish

guitars4you

VimFuego said:

TBH I find the prices of a lot of US made instruments to be waaaaay over the top. Just looking at the fender american original and new they go in the region of £1500. I dunno, seems an awful lot for a bolt on made out of stuff in parts bins to me. 

EDIT: I'd love to know how much of that is guitar and labour and real things and how much is marketing and logo. 

Just an additional thought and somewhat of a break down

£1500 for the Strat - less vat (£250) - hence £1250 ex vat - blame that 20% on any government 
£1250 less dealer margin - so approx £925 cost price to the dealer
£925 - then you have to remove any import duty (round 4% and shipping)
£850 is approx the cost of the guitar leaving California - that will include Fender's operating costs, profit margin and materials

Like it or not but I challenge any potential business to build such a guitar of the same quality + materials, + appropriate operating costs + labour, then  make  a relevant profit for the business to survive and progress, then get it to my shop door for £925

VimFuego

I dunno, automation has reduced the price of a lot of products, except guitars.

meltedbuzzbox

VimFuego said:

I dunno, automation has reduced the price of a lot of products, except guitars.

Vat would be a new introduction though since the 60s

guitars4you

meltedbuzzbox said:

VimFuego said:

I dunno, automation has reduced the price of a lot of products, except guitars.

Vat would be a new introduction though since the 60s

can't recall when vat came in - around 1972/3ish - But prior to that there was a purchase tax - But to young to know how it worked and what cost and indeed if on all products - But recall it was on the production/ex - factory price and not the selling price - Don't quote me on that as I was a kid in shorts

darthed1981

It all gets a bit daft if you go too far down the bunny hole...

There are significant costs in manufacturing guitars in the USA, they have high wages, they have more expensive materials etc.  there are legitimate upward pressures on price.

However in both Fender and Gibson's case they are selling what they consider premium/high-end product.  They have literally no motivation to sell at a lower price, it just hurts their margin, they will sell at as high a price as the market can stand, for the same reason as Ferrari don't make cars in the small family market segment (in Gibson's eyes). 

Also nobody along the chain has a motivation to lower costs either, there is no way @guitarsforyou or any other dealer is making £325 margin on a £400 guitar, but it takes up the same amount of space!  Understandably, the dealers want to sell high end guitars as well.  Even market-conquerors like Andertons with their (essentially) own brand or Thomann with their (definitely) own brand will still love to sell you a true-super-duper-magic-hide glue-monkey dick encrusted les paul for 7k if they can.  That's business!

Facts in the favour of the consumer....

Drop the obsession with brand and look at what comes out of the Far East.  Seriously try an Indonesian made guitar in the £350-£500 bracket, a Cort or a Chapman (yes, the new ones are good) you will have a decent giggable instrument.

Gibson and Fender live in our capitalist world, if people don't pay £2700 for a standard, Gibson wont be able to sell them for that.

Just nobody buy a 3k guitar you cant afford because you feel you should or have to, it's a premium product for the well heeled or pros for whom it is deductable or they get them free because they are endorsees.

You can get as good (or bad) as you ever want to be on a £500 guitar if you want to these days, you don't need to max your credit card.

So conversely, we also don't need to moan about pricing, because there are great guitars at every level