Build quality of well known amp manufacturers, anyone able to give some input??!

riffpowers

There's a lot of talk of quality and reliability lately, and I'm really interested in what people have got to say. For me as a gigging musician build quality definitely comes into the equation when looking at amps.
I know once you get into the higher end big names like Mesa, Bogner etc then quality goes up, but I don;t know about the more usual brands.
But I'm not a tech, so i wouldn't really know what's good and whats not. I know for example that the marshall vintage re-issues are great, but I wouldn't be able to comment if the mini jubilee was the same quality as its big brother, their new DSL range,  and how Marshall's core models like DSL and Origin holds up against the new Orange terrors for example.
So I was hoping people would chime in with their experiences and opinions.

I reckon the usual suspects are -

Marshall
Orange 
EVH
H&K
Engl
Peavey
Blackstar
Fender


Does anyone have any input into quality fo these often seen big brand amps??!!

 

ecc83

I shall be following this with great interest!

Dave.

crunchman

Not sure you can lump everything from one manufacturer in together.  I'll use Peavey as an example, as I've owned the pile of junk that is the Classic 30.  The Classic 30 is a horrible design, but the Classic 50 is much better.  They are two amps in supposedly the same series but are completely different.

Marshall have had variable quality over the years from what I've read.  I don't have a lot of personal experience of that, so I guess we are waiting for @ICBM to contribute.

ICBM

Quite a big subject, and as already said several of the manufacturers vary from very good to crap and all points between depending on which series and in some cases specific models.

I’m assuming you mean valve amps so I will stick to that...

Marshall - vintage reissues good, everything else less so. The UK-made JCM2000 DSL/TSL series has some fairly major issues, but the newer Vietnamese ones seem better. I haven’t seen a Mini Jubilee yet other than pics, or an Origin. The company is good for customer service though.

Orange - everything I’ve seen so far is very good. Problems other than valve failures are rare - the only definite fault I can think of is that the AD30 has a poorly located standby switch which tends to blow rectifiers.

EVH - only seen one, but it seemed well-made. It was with me to try to fix the notorious channel volume balance problem, not because it had died.

H&K - not seen too many of these either, but the build quality doesn’t seem too bad. Some models are excessively complex which can make troubleshooting difficult.

Engl - I have seen quite a few of these. Not impressed - poorly designed and built, and often expensive to repair due to the way they’re put together, and in some cases using unique parts.

Peavey - like Marshall, very variable. Some excellent, some terrible. The C30 isn’t actually the worst - the new-model Valve King is. I’ve had one of those that was unrepairable due to a burned-out PCB that Peavey wouldn’t supply a replacement for. I much prefer their solid-state amps...

Blackstar - well-made, but the widespread use of surface-mount ICs is a nuisance, and there are a couple of known faults with the older models which could be difficult to fix. The company is good for direct customer service though.

Fender - generally good, with one or two problem models... the surprisingly badly-made and overpriced Blues Junior especially. Some of the bigger and more complex ones can be a pain to work on.

Does that help at all?

riffpowers

Thanks ICBM thats great some really usueful info there.
 As you probably know, the amps I've used a lot are  jcm800's and a hand wired orange, so modern amps by comparison seem to be a total minefield and it's less easy for me to tell if they look well made to my untrained eye!!
I was told to keep away from PCB amps, and to my untrained eye a lot of modern amps seem to look a bit like the way computers are made with PCB boards and ribbon connectors. It just seems less easy for me to tell what looks well made.

ICBM

riffpowers said:

I was told to keep away from PCB amps, and to my untrained eye a lot of modern amps seem to look a bit like the way computers are made with PCB boards and ribbon connectors. It just seems less easy for me to tell what looks well made.

PCBs are not the problem - it's the other details of how they're done which are. A high-quality PCB amp will be at least as reliable as a hand-wired one, and if designed well shouldn't be difficult to repair if it ever does need it. Ribbon connectors are one of the problem areas though.

CarpeDiem

This is an interesting thread. Could I ask @ICBM what he thinks of Laney amplifiers, specifically the VC and Ironheart ranges? Thanks!

riffpowers

CarpeDiem said:

This is an interesting thread. Could I ask @ICBM what he thinks of Laney amplifiers, specifically the VC and Ironheart ranges? Thanks!

Thats one I forgot to put on the list!!

ICBM

CarpeDiem said:

This is an interesting thread. Could I ask @ICBM what he thinks of Laney amplifiers, specifically the VC and Ironheart ranges? Thanks!

Not that good - they seem to have a habit of using 'bare minimum to get by' quality, which is visible in things like the handles, corners and screws but extends to the internals as well. They also can be a pig to work on because the vinyl is not stuck to the cabinets properly and always snags on the chassis getting it in and out - this sounds trivial, but once you've worked on more than a few of them, it really isn't.

ecc83

ICBM was, as usual honest and fair. I only know Blackstars of course and even then I have not worked there for some years but I don't hear or read of many reliability problems.  SMT is the price you pay for "bells and whistles" at reasonable cost. I didn't like it either!

The fact is, anything with a valve in it is going to fail at some point. The test of a design is how well protected the rest of the circuitry is WHEN a power valve splarts  and properly "worse case" rated components add cost the punter rarely appreciates.

Customer service is important and I am glad IC thinks Bs are good in that area. Personally I would like to see much tighter consumer law that made companies more liable for long term service. Might put a spoke in the "cloner's" wheels!

Dave.

DJH83004

Interesting thread, totally agree with IC’s summary, I also get my fair share of older Fender HRDs with the LV +/-15v supply rail dropper resistors and zeners de-soldering themselves due to excessive heat,  and of course the valve bases.

Have just done a straw pole of the amps I currently have in for service / repair: Engl Screamer 50 combo, Mesa Tripple Crown 50, Orange Rockerverb 100, JCM 800, DSL 401, Laney VC30, Twin Reverb reissue, Badcat, Hotcat 100 and Sound City SC30.  In my humble opinion the worst one to work on is the Mesa, I dread them, getting the main board out to change relays, caps etc. is an absolute pig. I really like working on Orange amps, and older Fenders / Traynors with eyelet boards – a dream. 

Dopesick

Speaking of Laney - what about the AORs? I just got one off eBay for dirt cheap (100w MV100 Pro Tube version) and from the photos it looks in excellent nick, even for an old 80s amp. Anybody got any reliability issues or disaster stories about these?

paganskins

ICBM said:

I haven’t seen a Mini Jubilee yet other than pics

My 2525c mini jubilee combo had to go back to Marshall due to a duff LED on the channel select, not sure if that was just the LED or a manufacturing defect – it flickered and went out intermittently.

Modulus_Amps

riffpowers said:
I know once you get into the higher end big names like Mesa, Bogner etc then quality goes up, but I don;t know about the more usual brands.

Just my 2p,unfortunately this is not always the case, especially on the boutique market side where there are some builders getting away with murder all because they have built up a little "hype", but the insides look like sh1t

TheBigDipper

Based on personal experience of one, and a mates experience of two more, I'd say Rivera seem well built and easy to live with. 

ICBM

Dopesick said:

Speaking of Laney - what about the AORs? I just got one off eBay for dirt cheap (100w MV100 Pro Tube version) and from the photos it looks in excellent nick, even for an old 80s amp. Anybody got any reliability issues or disaster stories about these?

Apart from the usual Laney peeling vinyl, they’re just about bombproof in my experience. Probably the best-made Laney series.

Moe_Zambeek

The least reliable amp I've ever had was a Bogner. And the chassis rattled like a bag of spanners when you played an F. 

riffpowers

I'm surprised at that, and also surprised at Mesa, I'd always assumed those were well built, good quality amps.

webrthomson

riffpowers said:

I'm surprised at that, and also surprised at Mesa, I'd always assumed those were well built, good quality amps.

I've had a ton of mesa's over the years and for the most part they have been pretty bullet proof - the only exception and where I've had repeated issues has been with the channel switching on a DC10 and a reborn recto - both had issues.

My DC5 and Mark series have all been great - no issues at all.

jpfamps

I pretty much concur with the above.

Some random observations based on our repair work.

I've had several H&K amps through and they can be a pain to work on; they are quite fiddly to take apart, and the valve "protection/ auto bias" circuit can fail, rather defeating the object of implementing it in the amp.

MESAs vary from being OK to work on, to being a total pain to work.

The build quality of ENGL amps is not that special; for example several models have the output transformer mounted onto the main PCB! 

I also had to "unmodify" an ENGL Savage 120, and the factory couldn't supply me with a schematic as they didn't have one. 

Peavey Valveking is into a veritable pain to work on:

https://jpfamps.com/peavey-valveking-100-guitar-amp-repair/

Older Laney amps are reasonably well built, more modern offerings are not great. Some models are a total pain to work on, eg Laney TT100H

Blackstar are pretty well built (although they have very small output transformers), can be a pain to work on, and a lot of the one's we've had in have had odd faults, which have been time consuming to find.

We change more transformers on Marshall amps than ALL the other brands put together by a significant margin.

Fender amps are generally well engineered and were faults have been identified in models, then these are corrected in newer editions on the amp. The HRD / Blues Deluxe looks a real bargain 2nd hand.

Orange amps are well built, and generally the only faults we see are valve failures (in valve amps!) and blown output devices in the smaller SS amps.

jpfamps

Moe_Zambeek said:

The least reliable amp I've ever had was a Bogner. And the chassis rattled like a bag of spanners when you played an F. 

I've found Bogner amps to generally be a very well built, although I've not seen that many of them compared to other brands.