Trad Amps with FX - Atomic Amplifire with FX - Or sod it all and get a Helix/LT

Boromedic

stickyfiddle said:

I haven't read all the comments, but I think it's brilliant if you want "good enough" sounds (and I mean that in a generally positive way, as a lot of the Helix sounds are seriously good, but obviously you can't swap one tubescreamer for a slightly different tubescreamer as you can with single pedals), and the flexibility and plug+play element is brilliant once you're setup. If I was gigging I'm 99% sure I'd have kept mine. 

The reason I didn't keep mine was largely that I found I missed actual pedals from a tactile point of view. Turns out I actually really like the "thingness" of single stompboxes, and I enjoy the experience of shopping for them, trying them, building them etc.  Combined with the pitch-shifting really not being up to scratch and it didn't quite tick all the boxes. I reckon once they've got pitch-shifting up to Whammy standards I'll be very tempted to try another

Cool, I know what you mean with Pedals it is very tactile. Surprisingly enough it was our conversation that tipped me in that direction! Anyway try these pedals I have before I fly back!!

timmysoft

I run mine pretty simply.

i like stomp box mode, I prefer one core sound and add to it.

top row (l-r)
Amp Fat - just the Fat switch from the BE.
1.4db boost - optimised extra volume.
Octaver - set up for an octave lower.
Mesa EQ - classic 5 band Mesa scoop!
Compressor - L.A Comp, always on
mode switch (only active in looper)

bottom row:
Amp Drive - gain ramped up and HBE turned on
Overdrive - SD1, gain down, volume up, just for tightening the chugz.
Looper - 6 button looper
Flanger - The grey one, only used in a tiny part of one song
Delay - bucket brigade 
Tap tempo/tuner

meltedbuzzbox

   John_A said:

Think it's a lot more than 'good enough' I've gigged with some seriously big and expensive set-ups and the Helix sounds better than any of them IMO.

And the ability to swap pedals in and out, there's a choice of 24 drives to start with, how many options does anyone need

Without starting a handbags at dawn arguement...

What kind of music do you play? I'd it a high gain sound by any chance?

My opinion on a few things in the world of helix.

The microphone and cab behaviour is interesting and at times it can make the amp eq settings null and void depending on how you set the distance of the mic. I'm not sure how realistic that is.

Why does every amp model leave a harsh digital artifact if the hicut option goes above 8k?

For me the amp sounds/sims seem to be geared towards a hi gain sound and I think it does do that well 

The drive pedals... I'm sorry but I think nearly all of them sound pretty bad. 
I'm even going to possibly upset more people by saying the delays and mod fx aren't particularly great on the whole. (Tremolo is all good though).

Running a pedal into the helix can be interesting. 
A Hudson broadcast can crap out pretty much any amp in the helix like it's a 1 watt amp with no head room. 
I do find that running most pedals into the front of the unit lose a lot of their sound (I haven't tried in the loop for a while, I will revisit at some point).

The tuner... My god it can be a finicky sod at times.

I have to say after ten months of ownership I don't think it sounds as good as an amp and a pedalboard, my hiwatt and pedals make some sounds the helix can't get near (unfortunately).
But, I do think it is a great recording device for making music. I do think if particularly shines with bass guitar too.

Ymmv and all that

John_A

Handbags out

No, I don’t play much high gain stuff at all, I play in a rock, pop covers band.  My previous amp was a JTM45.

the cab/mic behaviour is pretty much what you would expect in real life

If you close mic a regular cab and don’t eq out the high end it will sound fizzy, this is just high end fizz and not a digital artefact 

As I said, I don’t play high gain stuff and I get some great sounds out of it

Hacing done direct comparisons between the Helix drives and real pedals I think you are wrong. Reverbs are good enough for me, if you are big in to fancy reverbs I agree there’s better.  IMO the delays are fantastic, the space echo is the best digital recreation of any delay I’ve ever heard

Running a pedal in to the front of the Helix is the wrong way to do it if you’re trying to simulate a pedal in front of an amp.  The Helix input is an audio interface that converts the guitar signal to digital.  Stick the pedal in a loop and put the loop block in front of the amp

Agree, tuner could be better

Boromedic

So if I get one should I keep my Turbo Tuner?!!

John_A

Boromedic said:

So if I get one should I keep my Turbo Tuner?!!

I don’t bother with an external tuner, it works well enough.  Hang on to your tuner and make that decision after you try the Helix one

kennedydream1980

I still use my TC PolyTune clip on tuner. Just out of habit more than anything. The Helix tuner is fine, just make sure you set it to guitar as it’s set to Multi by default. In multi the tuner is very jumpy and not very accurate, when set to guitar it’s fine.

Boromedic

Cool, will see eventually! 

timmysoft

John_A said:

Handbags out

No, I don’t play much high gain stuff at all, I play in a rock, pop covers band.  My previous amp was a JTM45.

the cab/mic behaviour is pretty much what you would expect in real life

If you close mic a regular cab and don’t eq out the high end it will sound fizzy, this is just high end fizz and not a digital artefact 

As I said, I don’t play high gain stuff and I get some great sounds out of it

Hacing done direct comparisons between the Helix drives and real pedals I think you are wrong. Reverbs are good enough for me, if you are big in to fancy reverbs I agree there’s better.  IMO the delays are fantastic, the space echo is the best digital recreation of any delay I’ve ever heard

Running a pedal in to the front of the Helix is the wrong way to do it if you’re trying to simulate a pedal in front of an amp.  The Helix input is an audio interface that converts the guitar signal to digital.  Stick the pedal in a loop and put the loop block in front of the amp

Agree, tuner could be better

I’m with you on that, I think some of the low to mid gain amps are great, especially the JTM and AC15. The SD1, OCD and Rat models are spot on too, they behave exactly like what I’ve experienced with an amp involved. I don’t know how accurate the fender amp models are because I’ve very little experience with them but from what I’ve tried in the Helix they all sound ok!

I think the Helix is missing a few key tones, i’d like a modern orange, laney GH, JCM 900 or DSL100 and a Diezel VH4. 

NelsonP

If you are happy with the tones you are getting with your Amplifire then one other thing to consider might be a board with an Amplifirebox on it.  That at least allows you to retain your favourite pedals.

Although you will lose the massive flexibility that Helix brings (and a looper and a USB interface and the ability to play bass through it etc). But how important are those things in reality?

Some nice examples below.....

John_A

NelsonP said:

If you are happy with the tones you are getting with your Amplifire then one other thing to consider might be a board with an Amplifirebox on it.  That at least allows you to retain your favourite pedals.

Although you will lose the massive flexibility that Helix brings (and a looper and a USB interface and the ability to play bass through it etc). But how important are those things in reality?

Some nice examples below.....

I went down that route for a backup to the Helix, and gave up.  As you say you lose a lot of flexibility, and going back to patch leads and power supplies with the associated headaches just wasn't worth it for me.

Now have a Fly Rig as backup, which hopefully wont get used

NelsonP

^^^ makes a lot of sense.

It's funny. If you start with a blank sheet of paper then 9 times out of 10 the right solution is some sort of all in one modeller.
But if you've already got a lot of pedals it seems much harder to cut your losses and start again.

...but maybe that is exactly what you should do?

Boromedic

Yeah I'd considered the Amplifire Box, but again the flexibility of an all in one solution is appealing tbh. So many options!!

John_A

Just think  the Helix LT is the price of an Amplifire box & 2 pedals, and look at the extra you get for your money, and the flexibility increase is huge

meltedbuzzbox

John_A said:

Handbags out

No, I don’t play much high gain stuff at all, I play in a rock, pop covers band.  My previous amp was a JTM45.

the cab/mic behaviour is pretty much what you would expect in real life

If you close mic a regular cab and don’t eq out the high end it will sound fizzy, this is just high end fizz and not a digital artefact 

As I said, I don’t play high gain stuff and I get some great sounds out of it

Hacing done direct comparisons between the Helix drives and real pedals I think you are wrong. Reverbs are good enough for me, if you are big in to fancy reverbs I agree there’s better.  IMO the delays are fantastic, the space echo is the best digital recreation of any delay I’ve ever heard

Running a pedal in to the front of the Helix is the wrong way to do it if you’re trying to simulate a pedal in front of an amp.  The Helix input is an audio interface that converts the guitar signal to digital.  Stick the pedal in a loop and put the loop block in front of the amp

Agree, tuner could be better

You have given me some things to go away and try thats for sure. 

I have done some comparison stuff too and I felt things weren't quite right, hence my preference for keeping things in place with a pedalboard and an amp. 

Im not a huge reverb fan and I would agree the helix stuff is good enough, my H9 does sound a lot better for reverbs but again I am not a big consumer of these. 

Boromedic

Sooooooo, I guess I'm heading in! Yamaha DXR10 already purchased from @digitalscream (thanks again Lee!), just a Helix to sort now, just had a few more questions for you:

Headphones: I noticed through the massive Helix thread their was specific Line 6 advice to get high impedance headphones, as the headphone out wants to drive them hard. I have a set of Audio Technica ATH M40fs which I bought specifically for using with the Atomic Amplifire as they have flat response drivers for studio monitoring. Spec wise they are 60ohms, do you think these will be okay? I suppose I can only try them like, so won't buy anything till I have, just wondered if anyone was using similar type phones. I appreciate that the Helix won't sound best through phones, but most of the time currently that's how I'll be using it. 

Lastly, the tuner. I do use a sweetened style setting on my Sonic Research which is basically copped from the Peterson. From what I've read you can basically do the same on the Helix tuner. Anyone tried this and what was the outcome? Any good?

Thanks again all