Les Pauls - best years?

Snap

guitars4you said:

Freebird said:

sawyer said:

View each guitar on its own merit. Year doesn't matter. I played loads of Les Paul's till I found mine.2003 as it happens.But just a good guitar. Not necessarily anything to do with the year:)

2002/2003 are renowned for being "good" years. They retooled their production lines and there was tremendous enthusiasm among the workers regarding a perceived return to greatness, or was that in the late 80's?  They've had a few eras like that which got people excited. There is a discussion on one of the big Les Paul forums, where ex-employees shared their memories. The early years post-Norlin were also a time of change.

agree about the 2002 period on-wards - would expand it a bit beyond 2003 - Granted weight relief kicked in around 2004, but up to 2008 and the PCB pot models with locking jack socket, then that 2002 to 2008 era are okay - Probably amongst the best non-vintage golden era models and non Custom Shop/Replica models

I have a 2003 standard, with the slim taper neck, its a great guitar. Really sings. I am a fan of the burstbucker pros too. Its possibly my favourite guitar.

clarkefan

There's no straight answer to the question, it's too subjective.  Apparently 70's LPs are shit but John Sykes for example would hugely disagree.

Gerz6558

I had an 89 les paul custom for many years. I read that late 80's into early 90's were pretty good because they were hell bent on getting the quality back upto scratch post norlin era. I have no idea whether that's consistently true, I'm sure there's loads of really nice norlin examples.

I will say one thing about my 89 custom, it was ridiculously heavy. The only reason it went in the end.

Henrytwang

John_A said:

robgilmo said:

70's Strats? I always thought they were not as good as other years?

Just different, big headstock 3 bolt neck.  Malmsteen and Blackmore seem to mange to get them to work

70s Stratocasters were usually quite weighty and the body contouring was a bit strange. Quality control was pretty slack at the factory but most of them for sale these days have had any problems sorted. They usually get a load of bad press but l own one and it gets played as often as my other USA Strats. The neck on mine feels great with a nice dark rosewood fingerboard, (7.5 inch radius), and the three screw fitting is very stable. The pickups are very smooth sounding, lots of hit recordings were made using these guitars so they can’t be all bad

danny_777

Skipped said:

danny_777 said:

I'm keen on the early reissues made over '87-99, as my general experience with guitars from this era has been positive and the tops/finished are generally very pretty. However there's been a lot of chat about how Gibson's current guitars are some of the best they've ever made.

I'm currently torn between an R8 from the recent lot of sales, and a very nice-looking 1988 '59 reissue I've found overseas.

The best years were '52 to '61.

But If we are talking about the best reissues, I agree that the Pre-Historics are very nice guitars.  I would favour an 1987 Pre-Historic (Tim Shaw Pickups) over a 1988 Pre-Historic. The Bill Lawrence pickups were introduced in 88.

Listen to "Brothers in Arms". Arguably one of the greatest Les Paul sounds ever recorded. That guitar - Mark Knopfler's Pre-Historic -  was made in the mid 80s. Amusingly, Knopfler now uses a 'Burst (live) to recreate the sound of the Pre-Historic/Shaw Pickups.

Just out of interest, how much is the '88? No need to reveal the seller.

The '88 is just under £3k, it's this one: https://reverb.com/item/15000822-1988-gibson-pre-historic-1959-reissue-lemon-burst-with-aaaa-killer-top

crunchman

danny_777 said:

Skipped said:

danny_777 said:

I'm keen on the early reissues made over '87-99, as my general experience with guitars from this era has been positive and the tops/finished are generally very pretty. However there's been a lot of chat about how Gibson's current guitars are some of the best they've ever made.

I'm currently torn between an R8 from the recent lot of sales, and a very nice-looking 1988 '59 reissue I've found overseas.

The best years were '52 to '61.

But If we are talking about the best reissues, I agree that the Pre-Historics are very nice guitars.  I would favour an 1987 Pre-Historic (Tim Shaw Pickups) over a 1988 Pre-Historic. The Bill Lawrence pickups were introduced in 88.

Listen to "Brothers in Arms". Arguably one of the greatest Les Paul sounds ever recorded. That guitar - Mark Knopfler's Pre-Historic -  was made in the mid 80s. Amusingly, Knopfler now uses a 'Burst (live) to recreate the sound of the Pre-Historic/Shaw Pickups.

Just out of interest, how much is the '88? No need to reveal the seller.

The '88 is just under £3k, it's this one: https://reverb.com/item/15000822-1988-gibson-pre-historic-1959-reissue-lemon-burst-with-aaaa-killer-top

Looks really nice, but by the time you add duty (assuming you are doing it legally) and a CITES certificate, you are looking at £3900.  That's assuming it's an Indian Rosewood board.  If it's a Brazilian board, then you have a major headache.  My understanding is that you couldn't legally import it these days.  If you went to Japan, you could bring it back as a personal possession, but you couldn't legally sell it if you decided to move it on.  You could "lose" the paperwork, and almost certainly get away with selling it, but it wouldn't be legal.

In your shoes, I'd just take advantage of the deals on offer on new R9s at the moment.  You are saving £400 over the price of importing this even if it's an Indian Rosewood board.  The new ones may well be better guitars as well.

danny_777

^ Further to my last comment, I should add that the only issues with CITES, on my understanding, are when they cross borders. And if you are crossing in person, no issue at all. I brought a ME1 from UK > Singapore recently without issue, since it was on my person. 

I don't see why you can't "legally" sell it thereafter, provided you're not shipping it cross-border.

danny_777

^ Ah, my last comment is 'pending approval' for some reason. I was just explaining that the extra costs aren't a concern - I have a residence in SEA so would be shipping it there (so no VAT to pay) and would be making an offer under asking price. If it was £3.9k I'd have no interest at all!

Whitecat

danny_777 said:

^ Further to my last comment, I should add that the only issues with CITES, on my understanding, are when they cross borders. And if you are crossing in person, no issue at all. I brought a ME1 from UK > Singapore recently without issue, since it was on my person. 

I don't see why you can't "legally" sell it thereafter, provided you're not shipping it cross-border.

Technically you weren’t allowed to bring Brazilian Rosewood across a border if it didn’t have a CITES passport - makes no difference how it’s moved. You can hand-carry other rosewoods without papers but Braz is CITES Appendix I which means no transportation across borders and no resale without papers... obviously the authorities don’t track these things too closely mind you, but in the strictest letter of the law ME1s and similar are basically contraband now when it comes to commerce and movement. 

matt1973

1959 was pretty good.

FelineGuitars

or any Feline Lion model built in the last 16 years

TimmyO

There is such a huge amount of internet cobblers talked about this subject. Some of it did start with a basis in useful generalisations but it all just becomes 'lore' 

So I'll deliberately counter it: there is no year that it is not worth picking up and trying. And on that basis, just play stuff, and pick something that is good, whatever the serial number, weight, tenon length, or orientation of saddles.

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

danny_777 said:

^ Further to my last comment, I should add that the only issues with CITES, on my understanding, are when they cross borders. And if you are crossing in person, no issue at all. I brought a ME1 from UK > Singapore recently without issue, since it was on my person. 

I don't see why you can't "legally" sell it thereafter, provided you're not shipping it cross-border.

Technically you weren’t allowed to bring Brazilian Rosewood across a border if it didn’t have a CITES passport - makes no difference how it’s moved. You can hand-carry other rosewoods without papers but Braz is CITES Appendix I which means no transportation across borders and no resale without papers... obviously the authorities don’t track these things too closely mind you, but in the strictest letter of the law ME1s and similar are basically contraband now when it comes to commerce and movement. 

Agree with your comments @Whitecat - You can get away with it if the authorities are not on the ball but that doesn't make it legal - However many many such guitars are sold, in the UK alone, without the correct CITES paperwork for Brazilian - The law is in place but really adhered to - The risk is if you get you'll probably loose the guitar

To legally sell it in the UK you'll need an Appendix 10 CITES certificate and one question on the form is where/when did you acquire it and they will require a copy of the original similar Appendix 10 paperwork and CITES number - If none was ever issued  on the export/purchase order, then you won't get one and they can't be issued retrospectively - Best bet is to enjoy it and don't get hung up about it and/or jump up and down about it

Brize

robgilmo said:

Just wondering, people are saying the best ones are from the 50's, is that in terms of collectability? I just dont see it other wise, modern machinery and manufacturing , better selection of materials, I just dont see how something made 70 years ago can be of better quality than something built today, 

Better selection of materials? Nope. Old-growth Honduran mahogany and Brazilian rosewood are far superior materials than anything that can be produced in any quantity today.

rico

My Standard from 2000 is one of the best guitars i've ever played. Granted it's had a refret (nibless - it's SO much better) with Jescar wire, BK Mules, aluminium tailpiece and earvana nut so it's been fettled with and as a result it plays fabulously and sounds exquisite. I'm pretty sure it's non-weight relieved and weighs 10lbs. Lovely neck (seems to me like a chunky C, not quite a 50's rounded back but not quite a slim taper). It's starting to age in some locations too!

danny_777

crunchman said:

danny_777 said:

The '88 is just under £3k, it's this one: https://reverb.com/item/15000822-1988-gibson-pre-historic-1959-reissue-lemon-burst-with-aaaa-killer-top

Looks really nice, but by the time you add duty (assuming you are doing it legally) and a CITES certificate, you are looking at £3900.  That's assuming it's an Indian Rosewood board.  If it's a Brazilian board, then you have a major headache.  My understanding is that you couldn't legally import it these days.  If you went to Japan, you could bring it back as a personal possession, but you couldn't legally sell it if you decided to move it on.  You could "lose" the paperwork, and almost certainly get away with selling it, but it wouldn't be legal.

In your shoes, I'd just take advantage of the deals on offer on new R9s at the moment.  You are saving £400 over the price of importing this even if it's an Indian Rosewood board.  The new ones may well be better guitars as well.

Ah so on that point, I currently have a residence in SEA so would be shipping it there. So no VAT, and extra costs would be minimal. I was also thinking of making an offer below asking. If it was £3.9k I'd have no interest at all!

danny_777

crunchman said:

danny_777 said:

The '88 is just under £3k, it's this one: https://reverb.com/item/15000822-1988-gibson-pre-historic-1959-reissue-lemon-burst-with-aaaa-killer-top

Looks really nice, but by the time you add duty (assuming you are doing it legally) and a CITES certificate, you are looking at £3900.  That's assuming it's an Indian Rosewood board.  If it's a Brazilian board, then you have a major headache.  My understanding is that you couldn't legally import it these days.  If you went to Japan, you could bring it back as a personal possession, but you couldn't legally sell it if you decided to move it on.  You could "lose" the paperwork, and almost certainly get away with selling it, but it wouldn't be legal.

In your shoes, I'd just take advantage of the deals on offer on new R9s at the moment.  You are saving £400 over the price of importing this even if it's an Indian Rosewood board.  The new ones may well be better guitars as well.

Ah so on that point, I currently have a residence in SEA so would be shipping it there. So no VAT, and extra costs would be minimal. I was also thinking of making an offer below asking. If it was £3.9k I'd have no interest at all!