Stratocaster Tone

stimpsonslostson

I bought one of these last week: 

https://www.belfieldmusic.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x650/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/e/fender_standard_stratocaster_electric_guitar_0144602502.jpg

A MIM Standard Stratocaster in Lake Placid Blue. 

Since then I've been getting to know it now & must say it plays beautifully- it's effortless. 

There is an issue though- it sounds rather "quiet, thin & brittle" compared to my other guitar (a Partscaster Esquire with a single Oil City Alligator 90 pickup since you're asking)
 I LIKE single coils so it's not like I'm looking for a LP tone. I just want to add some warmth & thickness. 

I've never encountered this issue before- I've always bought guitars that sounded good & then set them up to play how I like. 

So what can be done? 

I've tried adjusting my amp settings with some success. 

What's next? Is the following plan reasonable? 

1. Pickup height adjustment?

2. Heavier strings? 

3. New trem block?

4. Tone on the bridge pickup? 

5. EQ pedal? 

6. New pickups/harness?

7. Accept that Stratocasters may play great but sound rubbish & buy another Telecaster?

WezV

Put a baseplate on the bridge and swap the tone wiring around so two of the Pickups share a control

SteveF

IMO the single most useful mod for a standard-wired Strat is to give the bridge pickup access to a tone knob. 

If it's a MIM Standard you will also get excellent results from replacing the pickups, but you can get a useable sound from the stock ones if you don't want to spend the extra cash. 

ICBM

Pickup height adjustment first, new pickups if that doesn’t fix it - everything else is secondary.

Heavier strings and upgrading the bridge block will help a little, but it’s fairly subtle.

A tone control on the bridge pickup will take a little shrillness off (in that position only) but won’t fix the thinness or lack of volume.

An EQ pedal will work, but is treating the symptom and not the disease... although it could be even more effective than replacing the pickups, and will be a bit cheaper.

richardhomer

Does it have the same characteristic when played unplugged? In my experience, some Strats produce a ‘small’ acoustic tone, which translates into their amplified tone. Upgrades such as a pick-up change, base-plates, tone controls, new block, etc can improve things (at significant cost) but never effect a complete cure.

WezV

Well if you really dislike the strat tone the fixes are going to me more extreme..  but if you just want to tweak it a bit then the simpler mods work well.

fitting a baseplate to a strat pickup is very cheap and simple to do.   The guitar will still sound like a strat, but a bit fuller.   I think they are the best bang for the buck mod for a thin sounding strat.

Similarly, moving or adding a wire to a pot is not an expensive mod.  Changing a block will start to push the price up but they can be had relatively cheap.  

Obviously changing Pickups starts to become pricey, but you can do a lot to a strat for little money before that point

Neil

"Warmth and thickness"? I've heard they are selling some les Pauls at advantageous prices. 

Seriously though, don't those MIM standards have rather harsh pickups as standard?

digitalscream

Simple test - put a flat clean boost between your guitar and your amp, and see if that fixes it. It could just be that the Strat's output isn't enough to get your amp going.

paulnb57

In my Original 50's Strat the pickups were bloody awful, pickup change fixed mine.....

dazzajl

Doesn’t sound quite right that there should be such a dramatic output difference. Unless the pickups are really low in the body, it sounds like there might be a problem in the circuit somewhere. 

Unless we are talking more about nuances than quite blatant difference here? 

robgilmo

Set the pickup height to Fenders spec, look on their web site for set up instructions then go from there.

digitalscream

dazzajl said:

Doesn’t sound quite right that there should be such a dramatic output difference. Unless the pickups are really low in the body, it sounds like there might be a problem in the circuit somewhere. 

Unless we are talking more about nuances than quite blatant difference here? 

I'm not surprised - a standard Fender single coil vs a P90, there's always going to be a massive disparity. The (slightly) overwound Alligator 90 I've got in one of my Jaden Teles is violently loud, to the point where it's a bit louder than a Hot Rails.

fftc

I had a similar issue that I posted about here.
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/103232/strat-pick-up-question#latest

I found the solution for me was a new amp. I don't know if this is a common issue or not and if Strats are quite demanding of an amp in terms of getting a nice tone, but mine now sounds glorious and just like a Strat should.

dindude

fftc said:

I had a similar issue that I posted about here.
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/103232/strat-pick-up-question#latest

I found the solution for me was a new amp. I don't know if this is a common issue or not and if Strats are quite demanding of an amp in terms of getting a nice tone, but mine now sounds glorious and just like a Strat should.

I certainly think how you've built up your rig is a big part of it. I've always used a Strat as my main guitar so my amp and pedals reflect this and as such I get a big fat tone out of a Strat but struggle with Gibson's as they sound muddy in comparison.

CasperCaster

The picture you show is a Mexican Standard, so putting a baseplate on the bridge pickup (or any of its pickups) is a none starter - it will have ceramic magnets glued either side of the plated steel polepieces. And contrary to what some will say, the Mex Std's DO have ceramic magnet pickups - the Guitarist review of the 2012 upgrade models is just incorrect (2012 was the last change of spec for that model before it became the Player Series).

So, my two pennies - I would start by working with what you've got. Rewiring the tone controls is an absolute must in my opinion, and always helps a bit, and check you have a 47nF tone cap (or even larger) not a 22nF, and 250k pots. Try and work with the pickup heights - I always found those pickups to be quite hot so I'm surprised you think they sound weak.

After that I'd budget for a change of block AND pickups. I think the block is absolutely fundamental to the sound of a Strat, and whilst most will say steel, I think brass is worth considering if you want to thicken the sound of a Strat, especially if you spend time on the bridge pickup - brass holds back the treble frequencies a little bit, and works brilliantly on my maple neck Strat. In rosewood neck Strats steel is usually better, so it's about knowing the instrument, how bright/dark it is, and matching the block too it. So, steel is a safe bet, but in some circumstances brass will work a little better - either will be massively better than zinc. Equally I've tried lots of pickups and whilst steel plates help a bit (I've got a Duncan Twangbanger and a Dimarzio Red Velvet in front of me) they don't go far enough for me. I've ended up with a Dimarzio SDS-1 which sounds great (P90-ish), but it's physically a very deep pickup - fine in modern HSS routed Strat's where the pickup cavities are about 22-23mm deep, but a nuisance (routing required!) in a vintage style Strat where the cavities are about 16-17mm deep. I've yet to try a BK Trilogy but would like to as they are also P90-ish. Also, the Dimarzio FS-1 is pretty good (sits between the SDS-1 and more vintage pickups like the Twangbanger/ Red Velvet) and so is the Duncan SSL-6 or SSL-5. I've found that a steel baseplate on the neck and middle pickups helps when combining with a hotter bridge pickup. The main dilemma is which to change first - pickups or block? You need a decent block to be able to make an objective judgement of the pickups. But you need to know the true character of the guitar to choose the right block. I honestly LOVE brass in a couple of my guitars, but I'd say that 80% of the time steel is the best choice, so get a decent cold rolled steel block and then change the pickups. And buy pickups secondhand, especially the bridge pickup - if the first one ain't right you can sell it on without loss and try something else.

ICBM

fftc said:

I found the solution for me was a new amp. I don't know if this is a common issue or not and if Strats are quite demanding of an amp in terms of getting a nice tone, but mine now sounds glorious and just like a Strat should.

This is also true. When I got my Mesa Trem-o-verb, suddenly my Strat didn’t sound thin and a bit weak any more .

But smaller, lighter and cheaper solutions are also available...

crunchman

ICBM said:

fftc said:

I found the solution for me was a new amp. I don't know if this is a common issue or not and if Strats are quite demanding of an amp in terms of getting a nice tone, but mine now sounds glorious and just like a Strat should.

This is also true. When I got my Mesa Trem-o-verb, suddenly my Strat didn’t sound thin and a bit weak any more .

But smaller, lighter and cheaper solutions are also available...

If it's a Mesa in the UK, then getting Howard Dumble to build you an amp might be cheaper.

stickyfiddle

I use a Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster and multiple humbuckers guitars to good effect without changing amp settings. The trick is to go for slightly hot single coils and vintage-output humbuckers, and not expect the guitars to all sound the same.

I also run a decent cleanish boost in the form of a clone of an Alembic Stratoblaster preamp from Fuzzdog. Any time anything sounds a bit thin or quiet, I just kick that on and everything is intatantly more better-er. 

That works extremely well for most guitars, but especially so for strats.

ICBM

crunchman said:

If it's a Mesa in the UK, then getting Howard Dumble to build you an amp might be cheaper.

Trem-o-verbs aren’t actually expensive. You take the value of the amp if it was made by anyone else and subtract the weight in pounds and the cost of revalving it...

CasperCaster

As someone who always uses a bit of dirt I forgot a very cheap mod - a tubescreamer (or clone). 

ICBM

CasperCaster said:

As someone who always uses a bit of dirt I forgot a very cheap mod - a tubescreamer (or clone). 

If I remember rightly, Chris Rea said he was shocked at how weak his famous 60s Strat sounded when he heard it without his Tube Screamer and Boss compressor, after decades of always using them...