Thoughts on this 1974 CSL Les Paul Custom

Shrews

Complete beginner searching for his first electric, but no idea on what to look for.  I've spotted this on preloved and £100 appears reasonable.  It's a 1974 edition but no idea if that means it's a good thing or whether it'll perform like an old 1974 car, ie not as good as a new one!

There are some pics here:

https://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/118128396/left-hand-csl-les-paul-custom-plus-marshall-10w-combo.html?link=/search?keyword=left+handed+electric+guitar&minimumPrice=100&maximumPrice=250

Again, I'm not sure how much can be spotted via a picture and whether any of the eagle-eyed amongst you can spot anything.  Any advice would be appreciated. 

Phil_aka_Pip

I have a Maccaferri acoustic type by CSL, dating from 1976. Not the real thing by any stretch but the quality is not bad. If you find it playable and you don't mind the tone, then £100 is not (IMO) an unreasonable price.

richardhomer

My first electric was a 1975 CSL Telecaster Custom copy - a decent Japanese built guitar - CSL was a ‘house’ brand of distributors Summerfield. 

If everything works and the frets are ok, I agree with @Phil_aka_Pip - decent value at £100.

johnl

For another £50 I think you'd probably have a much better time with this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_sc_450pluslh_hb_vintage_series.htm?sid=a1261240fcd37dedc141a2effd6fa4e6

historyisjunk

If you need a LHanded guitar the choice is always a bit limited. So, if this deal includes the amp & it's working, 100 probably isn't bad at all.

From what I can see the guitar has a bolt on neck so it's not the best Les Paul copy you could find. The binding & the inlays all look a nice job though. The guitar looks like it's been well looked after, but possibly played a lot. Is there scope to ask for pictures of the fretwear?

As has been pointed out many times on threads about copies of guitars with humbuckers they sometimes only have only one coil under the cover. I'd guess that this one is OK though as other aspects of it look better quality. Someone else might know better?

If you aren't after any specific model of guitar have a look at LH Yamaha Pacificas, the ones with a bridge humbucker will give lots of different sounds & they're well made. If you'd prefer a Les Paul type, an Epiphone might be a better bet, if you don't mind the different headstock.

Hope this is some help

robgilmo

The nut doesnt look too healthy? and the strings look like they have never ever been changed. Id say for that money you should be looking at a second hand Squier or a bit more for a second hand Epiphone, that Harley Benton above looks nice.

robgilmo

Ive just had a look at the spec on that Harley Benton, how can they produce a guitar like that for that kind of money?

Funkfingers

The CSL body is likely to be made from laminates and with a steamed/pressed arched top. There could well be voids between the top and the rest of the body. The controls electronics will probably be shot by now.

In my opinion, it would be difficult to justify the additional cost of replacement parts when the overall outlay could have purchased a younger and better instrument.

historyisjunk said:

have a look at Yamaha Pacificas

Good suggestion. Their RGX models are of interest too. You can add Squier and Cort to the list too. 

crunchman

Some of the CSLs were pretty decent instruments.  I had a CSL Strat copy that was very good - much better than the guitar I traded it in for.

It's a Japanese made guitar so that alone will give it some value.  For £100 I'd buy it.  Worse case you put it back on Gumtree/Ebay and get your money back.

ICBM

I do like these old cheapos, but be aware that they almost always need substantial work to play properly and sound good. I’m fairly sure it has ‘tin can’ single coils, the polepiece screws appear to be over the top of the covers. The top will certainly be pressed ply over blocks, and the machineheads are most likely poor.

I would not pay as much as £100 without a fuller hands-on assessment, it could easily need that much again spent on it even if you don’t change the pickups.

Matt_McG

I have an identical one from 72. Also for sale (right handed, though). They have pressed wood tops, are quite heavy,  and cheap metal hardware. Selling it well, aren’t I?

On the other hand, mine  has a nice playing medium D neck, capable of very low action, and the pickups sound really nice. 

You could do better for not a lot more, but if in working condition, they are OK players in ny experienxe.

Phil_aka_Pip

robgilmo said:

Ive just had a look at the spec on that Harley Benton, how can they produce a guitar like that for that kind of money?

The chinese peasants pay their employers to allow them to work in the factories

JayGee

The answer (as so very often) is “It depends”, CSL is/was an importer’s (Charles Summerfield Ltd)  brand rather than a manufacturer’s, and they put the branding on a wildly varying range of guitars of widely varying quality.

I have a CSL LP Cusom-a-like which I’ve owned from new in 1976 and it’s absolutely superb (glued rather than bolt-in neck, solid mahogany body, proper humbucking  “Super 70” pickups (sadly long gone as they’re quite sought after in themselves, to the point that Ash at Oil City does hand-wound replicas), and workmanship and finish which easily stand comparison with what Gibson were shipping at the time) and if another one like that but without the ill-considered modifications (third pickup, a couple of extra switches, and later on a pair of Bill Lawrence pickups) which seemed like a good idea to my teenage self came up I’d be willing to pay a heck of a lot more than £100 for it...

Other CSL branded instruments weren’t as nice (or expensive - £180 was a fair chunk in 1976) as mine but I think they preferred to pitch their stuff a little higher than some other importers, and I don’t recall ever seeing anything *really* cheap and nasty with their branding on, so, while I’d *really* rather see it in person, and ideally whip the covers of the back to see what it’s made out of first, it may well be worth a punt...

ICBM

JayGee said:

The answer (as so very often) is “It depends”, CSL is/was an importer’s (Charles Summerfield Ltd)  brand rather than a manufacturer’s, and they put the branding on a wildly varying range of guitars of widely varying quality.

I have a CSL LP Cusom-a-like which I’ve owned from new in 1976 and it’s absolutely superb (glued rather than bolt-in neck, solid mahogany body, proper humbucking  “Super 70” pickups (sadly long gone as they’re quite sought after in themselves, to the point that Ash at Oil City does hand-wound replicas), and workmanship and finish which easily stand comparison with what Gibson were shipping at the time) and if another one like that but without the ill-considered modifications (third pickup, a couple of extra switches, and later on a pair of Bill Lawrence pickups) which seemed like a good idea to my teenage self came up I’d be willing to pay a heck of a lot more than £100 for it...

Other CSL branded instruments weren’t as nice (or expensive - £180 was a fair chunk in 1976) as mine but I think they preferred to pitch their stuff a little higher than some other importers, and I don’t recall ever seeing anything *really* cheap and nasty with their branding on, so, while I’d *really* rather see it in person, and ideally whip the covers of the back to see what it’s made out of first, it may well be worth a punt...

The glued-in neck ones came from the same factory as the Antoria and Ibanez equivalents, hence the Super 70s, but the bolt-ons - which this is, you can see a huge gap on the treble side of the neck - are basically a Columbus, Hondo, Avon or whatever.

There was a right-handed one otherwise identical to it in the shop I work for recently - I can guarantee it will be the typical mid-70s ply body with a thin ply top stretched over a block in the bridge/tailpiece area.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

JayGee said:

The answer (as so very often) is “It depends”, CSL is/was an importer’s (Charles Summerfield Ltd)  brand rather than a manufacturer’s, and they put the branding on a wildly varying range of guitars of widely varying quality.

I have a CSL LP Cusom-a-like which I’ve owned from new in 1976 and it’s absolutely superb (glued rather than bolt-in neck, solid mahogany body, proper humbucking  “Super 70” pickups (sadly long gone as they’re quite sought after in themselves, to the point that Ash at Oil City does hand-wound replicas), and workmanship and finish which easily stand comparison with what Gibson were shipping at the time) and if another one like that but without the ill-considered modifications (third pickup, a couple of extra switches, and later on a pair of Bill Lawrence pickups) which seemed like a good idea to my teenage self came up I’d be willing to pay a heck of a lot more than £100 for it...

Other CSL branded instruments weren’t as nice (or expensive - £180 was a fair chunk in 1976) as mine but I think they preferred to pitch their stuff a little higher than some other importers, and I don’t recall ever seeing anything *really* cheap and nasty with their branding on, so, while I’d *really* rather see it in person, and ideally whip the covers of the back to see what it’s made out of first, it may well be worth a punt...

The glued-in neck ones came from the same factory as the Antoria and Ibanez equivalents, hence the Super 70s, but the bolt-ons - which this is, you can see a huge gap on the treble side of the neck - are basically a Columbus, Hondo, Avon or whatever.

There was a right-handed one otherwise identical to it in the shop I work for recently - I can guarantee it will be the typical mid-70s ply body with a thin ply top stretched over a block in the bridge/tailpiece area.

ref comments above on a glue in neck CSL - yes correct as per above - Summerfield at the time were the wholesaler/distributor for Ibanez , hence the connection of having their own CSL brand name on what is effectively an Ibanez Guitar - Once the 'law suit' era had passed Ibanez no longer pursued the 'copy' market place and moved into their own original design - hence Artist and Musician models followed by many other models - As such Ibanez stopped supplying ' own brand' copies to such suppliers 

JayGee

ICBM said:

The glued-in neck ones came from the same factory as the Antoria and Ibanez equivalents, hence the Super 70s, but the bolt-ons - which this is, you can see a huge gap on the treble side of the neck - are basically a Columbus, Hondo, Avon or whatever.

There was a right-handed one otherwise identical to it in the shop I work for recently - I can guarantee it will be the typical mid-70s ply body with a thin ply top stretched over a block in the bridge/tailpiece area.

Not going to argue about that specific guitar as you’ve clearly got a lot more experience than me in “spotting the tells”, but some of the CSL branded bolt-ons were actually pretty nice as well (again dead-ringers for Ibanez/Antoria models - you can see the exact same guitars in the catalogs with differing brand names).

A few people I knew in school (yes, we all bought our guitars in the same shops, hence a lot of CSL branding...) in the mid ‘70s had bolt-on CSLs. One was catalogued as “the 59er” but was nothing like anything anybody was making in 1959, being a sort of Gibson/Fender mashup with a Les Paul shaped body in a Fender style translucent blonde finish, with a Strat style tummy cut on the back, and a bolt-on transparent finished maple neck with maple fretboard. That was a cracking guitar (and Steve Marriott clearly agreed as I’ve seen a number of photos of him rocking an identical one in his Humble Pie days!). Another was a Jimmy Page style EDS1275-a-like 6/12 twin neck - again bolt-on neck(s) but emphatically not in any way cheap or nasty. All of them I remember as being way nicer than the superficially similar stuff from the likes of Grant, Columbus. CMI, et-al

I actually think some of those guitars were really interesting, especially when they were “copies” of guitars which never existed, (like my mates 59er “Les Paul”, or my LP Custom with tree-of-life fretboard inlays and “vase of flowers” headstock facing inlay) and, quite apart from at least some of the guitars actually being very, very good I can see why some people collect them...

ICBM

JayGee said:

my LP Custom with tree-of-life fretboard inlays and “vase of flowers” headstock facing inlay

Someone I knew had the Antoria version of that - he was trying to sell it for £500 at a time when a real Gibson Les Paul Deluxe was going for about £300-£350. It was nice, but not that nice... no idea what happened to it in the end.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

JayGee said:

my LP Custom with tree-of-life fretboard inlays and “vase of flowers” headstock facing inlay

Someone I knew had the Antoria version of that - he was trying to sell it for £500 at a time when a real Gibson Les Paul Deluxe was going for about £300-£350. It was nice, but not that nice... no idea what happened to it in the end.

saw a  Antoria for sale at Gardiner + Houlgate Auction in 2017 - https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/gardiner-houlgate/catalogue-id-srgard10078/lot-630a68a7-34f4-4216-af29-a82e011b3df6 - would have to google it to find the hammer price

Henrytwang

As others have said it’s probably a laminated body with an arched plywood top that’s mostly  hollow underneath and a bolt on neck. The electrics, if they work, will be pretty poor. Loads of these types of look alike guitars were produced in the 70s and now people think that as they were made in Japan they’re worth a lot of money. I saw one idiot on YouTube doing a “restoration “ job on something similar and  he described it as a “vintage classic “. 

ICBM

I do restore these, but I wouldn’t describe them as ‘vintage classics’... cool old junk guitars with a bit of character that can play and sound a lot better than you would expect is about as far as I would go .

In any objective way they’re still worse than an average £200-£250 or so Chinese guitar of today, but they sound much more interesting, and there’s some nostalgia value for those of us of a certain age .

The ones I’ve done have sold for between £150 and £250 depending on condition, originality and whether the pickups and machineheads have been upgraded, but they’ve all been structurally sound and played properly - if that can’t be achieved economically then they’re scrapped.

Henrytwang

ICBM said:

I do restore these, but I wouldn’t describe them as ‘vintage classics’... cool old junk guitars with a bit of character that can play and sound a lot better than you would expect is about as far as I would go .

In any objective way they’re still worse than an average £200-£250 or so Chinese guitar of today, but they sound much more interesting, and there’s some nostalgia value for those of us of a certain age .

The ones I’ve done have sold for between £150 and £250 depending on condition, originality and whether the pickups and machineheads have been upgraded, but they’ve all been structurally sound and played properly - if that can’t be achieved economically then they’re scrapped.

Yes definitely not vintage classics. I do a lot of tinkering with cheap old Japanese guitars. Some of the Stratocaster copies from the 70s were actually quite well made but were let down by the pickups and machine heads etc.Some of those 60s thin plywood bodied guitars had interesting sounding pickups and make great slide guitars, I’ve actually got a couple knocking about in the garage awaiting attention along with a Hondo Les Paul copy with no pickups.