Becoming a vegetarian

octatonic

p90fool said:

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't really eat meat anymore either. 

I don't think NOT doing something really needs a name tbh, there isn't a name for people who don't eat peanut butter or chicory. 

I've pretty much stopped buying meat because I just don't find it particularly appetising any more, but that doesn't mean I feel any kinship with anyone else who doesn't eat it. 

I don't have much of a tribal instinct I'm afraid, so I'd no more describe myself as "vegetarian" than I would as "driver of blue car". 

Aren't you a Harley rider though?
Non-conformity is common in that club I hear.

ToneControl

Here's my perspective 

We evolved as omnivores. Our digestive system is optimised for this: our guts don't work like those of a carnivore or herbivore.
Herbivores have long, complex guts, carnivores have large stomachs and short guts.  We are in the middle, we pass food through slower than a carnivore, but quicker than a herbivore.
Therefore: it's not natural for humans to eat like a herbivore, we can't extract the same nutrients as herbivores can. However, we don't eat raw plants much, and humans have learned a few tricks in terms of food preparation. Nevertheless, it requires thoughtful planning to be able to ensure all dietary needs are met when avoiding meat.

I do think that restrictive diets can have health benefits, but I suspect a lot of that is because of the constraints and extra effort involved in selecting food. e.g. since I am a coeliac, I can't eat the snacks often presented at work on birthdays, or presented with drinks or before meals, I have to check ingredients lists all the time, and avoid the most easy and cheapest street foods, takeaway foods, etc. The same sort of thing can apply with veggies.

Personally I think that the worst health aspects of meat-eating are down to eating meat "the wrong way", i.e. wrong amount, wrong type, or meat that has been prepared with additives (e.g. bacon, sausages). Also people don't eat much variety of meats, and most people don't eat seafood much at all.

I'd advise any veggie to find out about genuine Indian veggie food, which is rarely on sale in the UK, because most south Asian restaurants are Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Real Indian veggie recipes work with the combinations of veg, rather than trying to substitute a veg in a meat-oriented dish.

prowla

I used to know someone who would say she was a vegetarian, except she'd eat fish ('cos they're not meat), chicken ('cos they're stupid), and turkey (at Christmas).

p90fool

octatonic said:

p90fool said:

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't really eat meat anymore either. 

I don't think NOT doing something really needs a name tbh, there isn't a name for people who don't eat peanut butter or chicory. 

I've pretty much stopped buying meat because I just don't find it particularly appetising any more, but that doesn't mean I feel any kinship with anyone else who doesn't eat it. 

I don't have much of a tribal instinct I'm afraid, so I'd no more describe myself as "vegetarian" than I would as "driver of blue car". 

Aren't you a Harley rider though?
Non-conformity is common in that club I hear.

Lol, no just Royal Enfields these days. I haven't owned a Harley since 2004, and even then it was always old homebuilt choppers. 

You make a valid point though - although I'd never let public perception sway my transport choices it's now a genuine relief NOT to have to say I ride a Harley when asked, such is the gulf between what I was building and what most people assumed my bike would look like. 

TimmyO

You've made the all important first step of telling everyone about it  ;-) 

p90fool

Wis'd @ToneControl ,I think anything which makes people stop and think about what they're eating is almost bound to have accidental health benefits, within reason. 

I'm lucky in that I enjoy cooking so have no interest or need to find meat substitutes or "suitable" ready meals, I just buy loads of fresh ingredients and google some recipes.

I have vegan friends who complain at the lack of choices for vegans in supermarkets having walked straight past all the fresh veg to moan about the ready meals, thus confirming my long-held suspicion that most food faddists just don't like food or cooking very much.  

Another reason I can't describe myself as a vegetarian is that if I'm a guest in someone's house I'll eat whatever they've cooked. Claiming you "can't" eat food you're given as a guest and not allergic to has always struck me as First World-y and rude, quite frankly. 

Grunfeld

p90fool said:

Another reason I can't describe myself as a vegetarian is that if I'm a guest in someone's house I'll eat whatever they've cooked. Claiming you "can't" eat food you're given as a guest and not allergic to has always struck me as First World-y and rude, quite frankly. 

Nope, definitely don't agree with the gist of that.  We probably agree that the word "can't" is inappropriate in the context you've described.  "Won't" would be more accurate. 

But to say, "I will not eat x, y, z" can have a valid rationale outside the narrow scope of allergy and health. 

E.g. Religious prohibitions.  I'm guessing you would not expect a Jewish or Muslim friend to eat proscribed food as a guest in someone's house?  In fact, wouldn't the rudeness and insensitivity belong to the host who knowingly offered that food?

It cannot be different with with other preferences based on principles connected to an underlying philosophy and belief system. 

Therefore refusing to eat meat as a veg*n guest should not really be seen as insulting to the host but merely behaving consistently according to a set of principles.  It would be inconsistent if the veg*n abandoned those principles on a whim of context. 

Kilgore

At university I was mainly a Pot Noodlearian.

p90fool

Well as a lifetime woolly liberal, of course I respect the faith and tradition of other cultures, but as a keen cook they can fuck off out of my house. 

p90fool

I'm joking of course, I have vegan and vegetarian friends who I feed appropriately when they come, but an indicator of the banter between us is that if I type the word "fucking" into Messenger in my phone the next suggested word is "vegetarians".
 

Travisthedog

The Thug Kitchen book is fucking hilarious. Cooked a few bits out of it already.

The Mango Curry is really really nice

PolarityMan

Shrews

As an ex-butcher but still heavily involved in the industry it's fair to say the meat industry has given me a good livelihood for nearly 35 years of my working life.  You can be sure that the British meat industry is quite probably the finest in the whole world. 

Animal welfare - fantastic
Food safety - fantastic
New product development - good (needs to go backwards to go forwards IMO, but some decent ideas out there) 
Quality - good (personally I feel taste quality has dropped in pursuit of lower costs and higher yields, but again that's just my opinion)

However, in reality, the whole world system of farming animals to kill, cut up and eat is nothing short of barbaric (I will also throw in fishing for good measure). I genuinely hope that in 100 years time killing animals for meat becomes a thing of the past.  It's like some sort of Sci-Fi series where a higher alien intelligence farms us humans to eat!

Yes, it's the way we've evolved but I can't see it that we'll need to kill animals for food in the future.  The sooner we develop artificial substitutes the better. Yeah, it'll mean I have to do something else for a living but if it means I don't have to see those animals being farmed for the kill on a daily basis, then so be it.

But veg is bloody horrible stuff. I never liked it as a kid, hate it as an adult.  Potatoes, mushrooms, onions fine, but the rest of it brings me to the point of vomit.  I'm not much better with fruit either.

So I say to the fruit and veggie industry that you need to up your game!  Stop looking to destroy the meat industry (it will naturally go that way as science develops anyway - hopefully), instead start doing something more exciting to take away that vomitable taste and then you might have a chance of attracting people to eat it.

Snags

I'm surprised at the assumptions that veggie choices are all based on health or "poor fluffy bunnies" arguments. You must all be really old I went veggie on a combo of environmental (enlightened self-interest for our moron species) and political (I hate what neo-liberal economics is doing to our culture and the planet and what it does in food production in a race to the bottom) grounds.

If we had a self-sufficient small.holding, or local source of ethical meat, I'd be killing the critters right, left and centre.

ToneControl

Snags said:

If we had a self-sufficient small.holding, or local source of ethical meat, I'd be killing the critters right, left and centre.

I was surprised to learn that it's no longer legal to shoot and eat feral pigeons

Snap

Shrews said:

As an ex-butcher but still heavily involved in the industry it's fair to say the meat industry has given me a good livelihood for nearly 35 years of my working life.  You can be sure that the British meat industry is quite probably the finest in the whole world. 

Animal welfare - fantastic
Food safety - fantastic
New product development - good (needs to go backwards to go forwards IMO, but some decent ideas out there) 
Quality - good (personally I feel taste quality has dropped in pursuit of lower costs and higher yields, but again that's just my opinion)

However, in reality, the whole world system of farming animals to kill, cut up and eat is nothing short of barbaric (I will also throw in fishing for good measure). I genuinely hope that in 100 years time killing animals for meat becomes a thing of the past.  It's like some sort of Sci-Fi series where a higher alien intelligence farms us humans to eat!

Yes, it's the way we've evolved but I can't see it that we'll need to kill animals for food in the future.  The sooner we develop artificial substitutes the better. Yeah, it'll mean I have to do something else for a living but if it means I don't have to see those animals being farmed for the kill on a daily basis, then so be it.

hi mate, I'd agree with most of that apart from the animal welfare bit. I think in some cases its good, in others not good, just depends on the farm and abbattoir. I think the standards we set aim for excellence, but not the implementation.

meat quality? again, depends. Fast grown meat, vs natural grown ( in terms of time). Cheap meat & water content. All these.

Its not just meat production that is causing problems, many industries are careless with environmental impact. Look at the fashion industry: we manufacture each year, 10 garments for every single person on the planet. One pair o jeans requires 1800 litres of water to produce, plus all the assorted chemicals. Manufacture if cotton is one of the main culprits in terms of impact on environment. this wasn't something I'd ever thought about until recently, having read some articles.

At least there is a growing trend to actually start to think about how some of our worldwide processes affect the planet.

clarkefan

What a great thread! So many new ideas to this 30 year vegetarian I'm sort of overwhelmed, thank you all

Everything's been said re advice, tons of great ideas here.  It's never been easier and acceptable, it wasn't always that way.  Cranks in London was named that for a reason

Good luck, and watch the cheese addiction your life becomes