Opinions on the cheaper Gibsons

DB1

pmbomb said:

Paul7926 said:

Huge thanks to everyone that has responded.

I guess my biggest fear is that the irrational desire to have those 6 letters on the headstock would lead me down a path of not getting value for money.  That is totally dependant on what you pay for those 6 letters and what you get for the money.  

buy well second hand - avoid depreciation and even if strictly you don't get straight vfm your money is still safe.

watch Gumtree, Reverb and eBay for a while, there is continuous turn over. any seller here who has a posting history away from classifieds is probably sound.

a short dialogue with the seller usually gives you a feel for whether they're straight up.

avoid dealers unless you're content to pay their 30% mark up. (my two year old Classic was £1200 from the first owner, dealers ask £1700 for them http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/128673/dangd-scratching-the-les-paul-itch)

avoid any ad with a hyperbolic over-punctuated title eg "** SUPER RARE *** PLAYERS GRADE CLASSIC VINTAGE LES PAUL ***MUST BE SEEN***!!!!!!"

I agree with most of that, but just my tuppence worth on the issue of buying from dealers. In my experience, you don't particularly pay for their mark up, as a lot usually sell for 'not far off private' prices. Where their profit is is in the difference between what they buy it in for and what they sell it for. For example, I was recently offered £1200 for my mint condition Daphne Blue Strat, unmarked and beautiful, unlike myself. The dealer stated (which was fair enough) that they would retail it at £1800, which still seemed like a keen price, so the new buyer would still get a good deal.

Just to make it clear, I have no issue with this whatsoever, and usually buy from dealers anyway, but the profit is mainly borne by the seller (to the dealer) not the new buyer.

I didn't do the Strat deal, but it was at least instant cash if I had have needed it, so although the seller 'loses out', it's cash in the bank there and then and saves the pain of private selling if you're averse to it. The other thing is, of course, you get chance to sit down and actually play the thing.

JezWynd

p90fool said:

Low end Gibsons often look fairly cheap and nasty, with ugly wood and crappy finishes, which can make them seem poor value compared to blingier guitars for the same money. 
I will say though, having stripped a very nicely finished "mahogany" Epiphone of its finish, it was just a glass-like layer of poly over a veneered blob of the weirdest, damp-feeling balsa-like substance I've ever seen. 

It looked like a nice guitar, but basically had a similar construction to a Smartie, and no amount of pickup swapping helped it.   

Cheap Gibsons sometimes look a little crude, but they're real guitars made out of real wood, and often sound excellent. 

Very true. Exhibit one M'lud.
https://www.richtonemusic.co.uk/product/gibson_melody_maker_ebony_with_gibson_gig_bag_2nd_hand_-ygibson78211/

thegummy

p90fool said:

Low end Gibsons often look fairly cheap and nasty, with ugly wood and crappy finishes, which can make them seem poor value compared to blingier guitars for the same money. 
I will say though, having stripped a very nicely finished "mahogany" Epiphone of its finish, it was just a glass-like layer of poly over a veneered blob of the weirdest, damp-feeling balsa-like substance I've ever seen. 

It looked like a nice guitar, but basically had a similar construction to a Smartie, and no amount of pickup swapping helped it.   

Cheap Gibsons sometimes look a little crude, but they're real guitars made out of real wood, and often sound excellent. 

I wonder how far up the Epiphone range they're like that 

rossi

The 2014 melody maker which isnt really a melody maker at all is very good guitar for the price .The P94's sound great .finish is matt and does buff up being nitro .Lower priced Gibsons lack  bling but do have quality where as an Epiphone is  often bling and no real quality IMHO

TTBZ

As a Gibson owner, in the future I'd always go for something MIJ over a Gibson. I like my guitar and other Gibsons I've played, but I don't think they're really any better than what you can get from a Japanese manufacturer. I always want to pick value for money over brand name, plus to me the Gibson name these days doesn't always mean you're getting a quality instrument considering how much the "cheaper" ones cost now.

The Epiphone Pro series are decent and go for dirt cheap second hand. Epiphone standards are ok but the necks are a bit thin and the SGs tend to be neck heavy. Did many gigs with my Epi and it never let me down other than the odd broken string. Always got compliments on my tone from guitarists in the audience.

But maybe I'm just a muggle who can't tell the difference. Rather get a high end MIJ than a low end Gibson.

JayGee

thegummy said:

The Gibson gig bag really is quality. In fact, there was a recent thread where someone haga the prs se as an example of a great quality gig bag and I said if they think that's great, the Gibson one will blow their mind.

Aside from that though, I'm surprised to see someone who owns both seeming to prefer the low end Gibson. I wonder if maybe the prs se's from 10 years ago weren't as good as the recent ones? Obviously it's personal opinion to a degree, especially since you mention "charm" (which I admittedly don't know what means but assume it's a very personal thing), I'd just expect anyone with both to see the prs se being quite substantially better pretty objectively.

On the topic of liking the stripped down look, my Mrs actually likes the look of the Tribute more than my other guitars and I do like the look of it myself. I do think it looks and feels cheaper than the prs though.

I plead guilty to a *very* subjective approach to guitars, I’d say they’re all solid, playable, great sounding  guitars of a standard such that it really does come down more to which I *like* best at a particular moment than which is “better”, and that I find the Tribute *very* likeable, largely for the very organic, “woody” tactile qualities of that thin finish.

Just to totally muddy the waters I also own a USA built PRS Mira (what would now be called a “core” series rather than the current S2 series) and I actually like my SE Singlecut Soapbar better than I do the Mira - the Mira was my main gigging guitar for about 10 years (in fact all the time I was in working bands, which is up to about 3 months ago, shortly after I got the Tribute purely because it was an utterly dependable, versatile working musicians tool, the SE was always the one I picked up at home to play just for pleasure though.. Then there’s my Gibson Explorer which is very much a “full fat” Gibson with shiny black finish, bound fingerboard, block inlays etc - another great stage guitar (as well as being a quality instrument I defy anyone to strap one of those things on, walk out in front of an audience and not swagger a bit...) but It hasn’t been out of it’s case since I got the Tribute.

Thinking about it we’ve had the SEs rather more than 10 years, they were actually from what must have been the very first batch to show up in Peach Guitars when the SE series was announced - we actually went in to get Youngest Son his first guitar after doing his time on an old Yamaha Pacifica I had around and demonstrating he was going to stick with it. He wanted an Epiphone Les Paul, got the SE because it was clearly head and shoulders better than anything with an Epiphone badge at the time, and I was sufficiently impressed that we walked away with two guitars rather than just one, and that led pretty much directly to my getting the Mira. If anything I think thosecearly guitars were actually and finished to a higher standard than some of the more recent examples I’ve tried.

Paul7926

Well I got to pick up a les Paul studio today. Very nice but actually out of my price range so didn't get the guy to wire it all up cos I was never going to buy it.

The feel of it was everything I thought it would be but I did notice that the gold hardware had pitted badly in places. 

Again I never properly investigated the actual year cos I wasn't going to buy it and u didn't want to be that time waster. 

However it does mean I think I'm gonna have to end up with a Gibson one day.

Nikc

I've read through this thread and there is lots of good but contrary advice - we all see the world through our own eyes. It did get me thinking again, hence another personally loaded view point

I've had a few guitars over the years, I've never really had the desire for a Gibson but, I did for PRS and a Tele (only a Fender would do) - so guess what I have .... yep a PRS and Fender Telecaster and I'm as happy as a pig in. I have had LP stye guitars never really got along with them (which is a crying shame as I have always loved the look of them) and I also have an Epi Dot which I feel needs better PUP's. 

When I needed a proper acoustic I had no brand desires at all. So I went long to my local guitar shop had a chat played lots of different guitars ended up doubling my budget and bought the one I liked the best. I haven't looked at another acoustic seriously since, mine is my go to guitar. I doubt a day goes by when I don't pick it up and play it. 

Saying that the PRS and my Tele are guitars that scratched the itch. I've no doubt I'd still be gassing if I hadn't just gone with what I wanted, although I do know of a lovely looking Tokai Love Rock at a great price which could cure my Les Paul shape desire  

Paul7926

Yeah, so far I've not found anything that has put me off the Gibson obsession.  I accept that it may well just be that, an obsession, but I'm starting to think that until I own one it's not going to go away.  Just picking one up yesterday did nothing to put me off.  Maybe down the line I might find something else that speaks to me more but I think that will be something that comes with experience.

As I'm certainly in no rush I think that I'll probably just keep my eye on the second hand market for a while.  If something pops up then great.  I've seen some with minor dings and scratches that, quite frankly, don't really bother me at the right price.  Pure cosmetic damage I can live with.  Yesterdays one would have needed replacement bridge parts which put me off at the price they wanted.

The two limiting factors are money (no surprise there) and ability (I don't really need an upgrade yet) so the longer I spend looking the more money and ability I'll have.  (In theory)

Grumpyrocker

I think if you've got that Gibson need only a Gibson will do. And that will either satisfy you, or end the obsession. I've wanted a Les Paul all my life. My wife bought me one in 2009 and it's lovely. But at the same time it's cured me of this obsession and I've added much cheaper guitars to my collection since. 

JayGee

Given how hard it is to buy a truly bad guitar these days I think it’s probably a mistake to try to be too objective and analytical about this stuff, and if there wasn’t room for a substantial subjective/emotional component in our instrument buying decisions then music (which is an inherently subjective phenomenon) would probably be the wrong hobby/career/whatever for us. :-)

Ultimately if an instrument makes you happy when you look at it, pick it up, play it, hear somebody else play it, or just think about it, and that inspires you to play (in every sense of the word) that’s far more important than somebody else’s objective analysis of it. For me colour, shape, what your idols play, shiny newness, real or imagined backstory, real or fake aging, and yes, the brand on the headstock (along with the baggage it carries with it) are all perfectly legitimate inputs into the “making happy” process...

Skipped

Teyeplayer said:

There are the same quality control issues across the entire price range, so it is fair to say that when you get a good one, you get a good one, regardless of whether it’s a special, standard or custom. 

I’ve a 90s Les Paul Special, a 2011 non-reverse firebird studio, a 2015 non-reverse firebird and have just this week picked up a 2018 SG special. I wouldn’t think twice about taking any one of these out to gig, each is a great guitar in its own right.

Don’t be put off by the original price point, there are good guitars in every batch and definitely consider secondhand ones, there are some bargains to be had.

The OP should check out the SG that you have just acquired. Probably the nicest "cheap" Gibson that I have seen recently. The previous owner clearly has immaculate taste when it comes to  modding and your guitar looks great. A unique guitar for very little money. I think that is the way to go. 

Paul7926

Skipped said:

Teyeplayer said:

There are the same quality control issues across the entire price range, so it is fair to say that when you get a good one, you get a good one, regardless of whether it’s a special, standard or custom. 

I’ve a 90s Les Paul Special, a 2011 non-reverse firebird studio, a 2015 non-reverse firebird and have just this week picked up a 2018 SG special. I wouldn’t think twice about taking any one of these out to gig, each is a great guitar in its own right.

Don’t be put off by the original price point, there are good guitars in every batch and definitely consider secondhand ones, there are some bargains to be had.

The OP should check out the SG that you have just acquired. Probably the nicest "cheap" Gibson that I have seen recently. The previous owner clearly has immaculate taste when it comes to  modding and your guitar looks great. A unique guitar for very little money. I think that is the way to go. 

If that was the 2018 Special then yeah it does look nice.  That's the sort of territory I'm probably going to be hunting in.

andyp

I was in a similar boat back at the end of 2015 and bought a 2016 SG Faded. I still have it and play it a couple of hours a day. It's fantastic, I paid the full £599 as it was brand new into GG Glasgow and it was the only one they had. I also tried an SG Standard which was £999 at the time but really noticeably preferred the Faded model. The matt finish is brilliant and has worn in really well, I found the gloss on the Standard a bit tacky feeling and generally the Faded just felt nicer to play all round. I had a couple of issues with it, but with those sorted it's such a great guitar. I'll never sell it, it just feels like home and really encouraged me to learn and play as much as possible.

It feels way better than any Epiphone SG model I've tried and compared to the equivalent Faded Les Paul (I've only played 2 or 3) it feels better built and has a lot more character to it. My old man raves about my SG too and he's played tonnes of guitars over the years. I'd definitely recommend one.

I wrote a review on here about it. I'll find the link.

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/70439/2016-gibson-sg-faded-t#latest

Paul7926

@andyp ;Thanks for the reply and linking your review.  I too quite like the no-fuss looks of the faded.  Glad you like yours and don't feel like it's a 'bargain basement' version which was my main worry at the start of this thread.

andyp

Paul7926 said:

@andyp ;Thanks for the reply and linking your review.  I too quite like the no-fuss looks of the faded.  Glad you like yours and don't feel like it's a 'bargain basement' version which was my main worry at the start of this thread.

No probs at all.

monoamine

If you want the Gibson shapes and quality without paying top dollar, look at vintage made in Japan guitars from the 80s. Tokai, Greco, Burny etc. I've been playing these for over a decade and they are STILL incredible value and hand made instruments.

Teacherphil

I have a Les Paul Tribute T Gold Top that was £649. It's great. I would however recommend just waiting for the deals on other Gibson guitars. Over the last few years I've bagged a 2016 Firebird V for £679 (peach guitars). A 2014 SG standard for £803 (Thomann) and a second hand SG classic for £550 (ebay)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/H6LWgq6M8f7MVA6d9

Paul7926

I'll be honest in that eBay (and the like) scare me.  I'm even reluctant to buy a high price guitar online from a store never mind a place where I literally have no comeback. 

Even if the seller is genuine then I don't really want my first contact with the guitar to be after I've bought it just in case.  Add to that shipping Gibson's through the post seems like Russian roulette given the state of the packing some of the second hand pedals I've bought have got to me in!

As I've said before my biggest advantage is that I'm not in any rush so I can just bide my time until the stars align and the right thing pops up.

Teyeplayer

Definitely avoid the eBay risk and go with trusted members here who have the feedback and frets to evidence their being someone that others here can vouch for.

Also, start to think about what it is that you like the look of (yes I said what you like the look of, playing a guitar starts with your attraction to the instrument). Are you thinking, Sg, Les Paul, firebird or even V/explorer? Which one appeals to your musical taste, who is your guitar hero, what did they play? Once you’ve that out the way you can start narrowing down to pick-up choices or finish appearance (satin, bound top, etc). Then ask on here...one of us will have what you are after and most of us are not robbing bastards and would be happy to help a newer member out with a sensibly priced sale.