FRFR again

Axe_meister

Looking at options again and thinking of going FRFR again.
Currently running a Helix into a Mesa 50/50 stereo power amp into 2 Marshall 2x12s.
I disable speaker and microphone simulation.
The downside it sounds like a Marshall.
Into my studio monitors (bx8) I get a lot of high end fizz (speaker and microphone sims on) so a lot of EQ required).
Have been looking at the line6 poweecaba and the headrush.
Now the Line6 powercabs seem to emulate a 1x12 Cab but you can switch the speakers, so will always sound like a 1x12 (still have to switch off speaker sims)
So will the 2000W headrush give me the sound of a mic'ed up cab without the high end fizz?

ICBM

I was thinking about this again.

Basically, unless you want to use acoustic-simulation sounds, why bother? All you're really doing is adding a load of top and bottom end which you then need to take off in the software to make it sound even close to tolerable, and it still never quite sounds 'natural'...

... so why not just use a fairly neutral guitar cabinet? They do exist. The reason the Marshall 2x12"s always sound like a Marshall is because they're crude cabinets with very 'Marshally' speakers.

If you get a better quality 2x12" with something like EVs, 12" PA drivers like Eminence Deltas or even a more neutral Celestion like the G12K-100, that should solve both problems.

Axe_meister

But thought the whole point of the speaker sims in the modeller was to sound like the speaker cab of choice?
Which is why the horrible fizz through my monitors surprised me.

John_A

You wouldn’t stick a sm58 right on a cab with no EQ and expect it to sound good, you need to adopt the same thinking in a modeller.

John_A

Easiest way is to use the high and low cut on the cab block, lop of everything above 5k as a starting point 

ICBM

Axe_meister said:

But thought the whole point of the speaker sims in the modeller was to sound like the speaker cab of choice?
Which is why the horrible fizz through my monitors surprised me.

That means that the speaker and/or mic sims are no good.

They should be removing the fizz frequencies if they're doing their job properly.

John_A said:

You wouldn’t stick a sm58 right on a cab with no EQ and expect it to sound good, you need to adopt the same thinking in a modeller.

Actually you would, at least with an SM57 rather than a 58. You might have to experiment with position, but if the basic sound coming to the desk isn't any good, you need to fix it at source if you can. EQ should be to finely adjust it, not to make a bad sound good.

You would certainly expect to be able to record a room mic with no EQ, if the room is good.

At least that's what I was always told by good studio engineers...

Axe_meister

Which is my thinking. Will have to do some more experimentation I think.
Now do I just replace the drivers in my cabs or buy new and sell the Marshalls 

ICBM

Axe_meister said:

Now do I just replace the drivers in my cabs or buy new and sell the Marshalls 

I would get better cabs as well, even if the 1936s are older (or very recent) ply ones. They're just not very neutral cabs.

If you still want two 2x12"s I would get vertical cabs as well, they work better.

Axe_meister

Might have to book a demo room at Andertons and check out the Headrush FRFR. Need to cut down on size of rig as well.
And think about my back.

Axe_meister

Yep they are 90s JCM 900 1936 or 1960s can't remember they are the bigger of the two cabs and weigh a bloody ton

ICBM

Axe_meister said:

Yep they are 90s JCM 900 1936 or 1960s can't remember they are the bigger of the two cabs and weigh a bloody ton

1936. 1960 is a 4x12", the smaller 2x12" is a 1922.

You could reload one of them and use it in stereo, but they're still not great cabs. All bar the very first 900 series ones are MDF.

NelsonP

My currrent view is that if you want real cabs you also want real amps and something like an HX FX. What you lose in versatility and ease of lugging it around you gain in feel.

If you have a Helix then FRFR probably the way to go and gives you a lot more versatility. But it will never sound / feel exactly like a real cranked Marshall (or Mesa) through a 4 x 12.

There is a review of Powercab vs Headrush in this month's guitarist magazine which you should take a look at.
Basically says that Powercab is more like a guitar cab, has more features, 250W.
Headrush is what it looks like - a tweaked powered PA speaker 2000W peak (so 128db = LOUD).

Not sure of your needs but I'd also be looking at Alto TS range (TS 312 is a dead ringer for the Headrush), Yamaha DXR, Laney LFR112 and IRT-X and maybe Friedman FRFR or Atomic CLR, budget permitting.

Anderton's stock most if not all of those I think. Sounds like a fun day out!

BGG

I was after a Headrush a few weeks ago, none in stock anywhere in the UK
Bought an Alto 312 instead for my Helix and love it.

John_A

ICBM said:

Axe_meister said:

But thought the whole point of the speaker sims in the modeller was to sound like the speaker cab of choice?
Which is why the horrible fizz through my monitors surprised me.

That means that the speaker and/or mic sims are no good.

They should be removing the fizz frequencies if they're doing their job properly.

John_A said:

You wouldn’t stick a sm58 right on a cab with no EQ and expect it to sound good, you need to adopt the same thinking in a modeller.

Actually you would, at least with an SM57 rather than a 58. You might have to experiment with position, but if the basic sound coming to the desk isn't any good, you need to fix it at source if you can. EQ should be to finely adjust it, not to make a bad sound good.

You would certainly expect to be able to record a room mic with no EQ, if the room is good.

At least that's what I was always told by good studio engineers...

A ‘room’ is one thing, with a mic 10 feet away from the cab it’ll sound reasonable without eq, with the mic (or your ears) 1 inch from the speaker it will sound fizzy, just like the helix model.

Have a read and a listen to this

http://www.wiredguitarist.com/2016/12/06/recording-tips-eqing-distorted-guitars/

ICBM

John_A said:

A ‘room’ is one thing, with a mic 10 feet away from the cab it’ll sound reasonable without eq, with the mic (or your ears) 1 inch from the speaker it will sound fizzy, just like the helix model.

Not if you get the mic in the right place. If you mic the centre of the cone it will...

I've had good results many times from just finding the right spot for the mic, and not EQ'ing at the desk. You can still use EQ if you want to fine-tune it, but I think it's better to start with a good sound in the first place than try to make a bad one good with too much EQ.

John_A

On the helix you can move the mic around too, my point is it’s an accurate model of a mic’d cab and can sound fizzy in exactly the same way as a real cab and mic can

TimmyO

People complain about fizzbut don't use the high cut filter on the cabblock