Great amps realisation

hotpickups

Just wanted to share this. I've been lucky enough to always having a decent amp. They've just got better and better with each iteration I've had. The thing is I think we can forget how good they are though. Last night I plugged into a crap solid state studio amp and cab and it just sounded crap compared to my valve amp.

Ok it was old and I'm not saying valves are better than solid state etc but it just made me realise that we sometimes search for the next best thing but we probably have it already with the kit we already own and may have taken it for granted. Just made me appreciate my setup even more after that session.

Any one else had that experience?

Guitar_Slinger

I used to play with somebody and rehearsals would be interrupted by him (and sometimes the bass player) tweaking his Valvestate head and matching cab to a sound that wasn't thin and fizzy, or didn't disappear when we "cleaned up".

While he was doing that, I'd appreciate my 1x12" valve combo and the different sounds you could get from varying a LP volume or pickup selector.

Took a few rehearsals to change on the fly, but great fun once you can get what sound you want.

ICBM

Good amps sound good and crap amps sound crap... it’s not always related to price or the technology.

In my opinion part of being a good musician is being able to get a half-decent sound out of something less than ideal when you have to - but there does come a point where it can’t really be done. It is true that one of the main differences between valve, solid-state and modelling is how easy it is to find that sound, and how naturally (or not) it then responds to playing changes - most valve amps do it well, most non-valve ones don’t as much... which is why players find them hard work or don’t ‘cut through’ when you dig into the strings.

slacker

I bought a bad cat because it was cheaper than a matchless. I couldn't shake the feeling I should have bought a matchless. So I bought a matchless. It sounds identical to the bad cat. So I've kept both and don't buy any more amps. 

hotpickups

slacker said:

I bought a bad cat because it was cheaper than a matchless. I couldn't shake the feeling I should have bought a matchless. So I bought a matchless. It sounds identical to the bad cat. So I've kept both and don't buy any more amps. 

lol I could've told you that. I tried various matchless before I bouoght my badcat black cat. Both great amps but bad cat is bettter value imo 

ICBM

slacker said:

I bought a bad cat because it was cheaper than a matchless. I couldn't shake the feeling I should have bought a matchless. So I bought a matchless. It sounds identical to the bad cat. So I've kept both and don't buy any more amps. 

The definition of a First World Problem.

stickyfiddle

hotpickups said:

slacker said:

I bought a bad cat because it was cheaper than a matchless. I couldn't shake the feeling I should have bought a matchless. So I bought a matchless. It sounds identical to the bad cat. So I've kept both and don't buy any more amps. 

lol I could've told you that. I tried various matchless before I bouoght my badcat black cat. Both great amps but bad cat is bettter value imo 

I've always seen Bad Cat as like Matchless only more confident to try and push and improve things rather than just make literally the same amp forever. They also weigh less, which is a winner as far as I'm concerned!

Maynehead

Luckily for me I've always had a particular dream amp and dream guitar. Now that I've been fortunate enough to acquire both, I don't feel the urge to seek anything better.

It's not that I think they are the best sounding/playing amp/guitar in the world, don't get me wrong. I know there are stuff out there that sound even better. But since I've always aspired to own them, I wouldn't want to replace them for anything else.

sweepy

The Bad Cat Hot Cat 30r is an amazing bit of kit although my back objected to it strongly, sucks to get old

hotpickups

sweepy said:

The Bad Cat Hot Cat 30r is an amazing bit of kit although my back objected to it strongly, sucks to get old

This is why I've gone head and cab now

Mark1960

Some interesting points here, and i beleive it's a lot to do with perception. My first electric guitar was a Columbus, cheap and chearful, and I had a small practice amp which was the size of a corflake packet, and sounded not disimilar if the truth be known, so I very quickly upgraded to a Peavey "Studio Pro" combo, which was miles better. I then upgraded the guitar to a Fender, and then a while after bought a valve amp. At each stage with the amps I noticed a big improvement, but having said that I still have the Peavy as a back up, and when I used it a while ago it was not as bad as I thought, so I think I perceived the valve amp was much better than the Peavey, cos that's what we are led to beleive. In reallity I am certain it is better tone wise, but not by a massive amount. Because I am more experianced and have (arguabley) a better guitar, I can get better sounds out of the Peavey now than when I first had it, so there is a lot going on here in terms of perception.

ICBM

Mark1960 said:

Some interesting points here, and i beleive it's a lot to do with perception. My first electric guitar was a Columbus, cheap and chearful, and I had a small practice amp which was the size of a corflake packet, and sounded not disimilar if the truth be known, so I very quickly upgraded to a Peavey "Studio Pro" combo, which was miles better. I then upgraded the guitar to a Fender, and then a while after bought a valve amp. At each stage with the amps I noticed a big improvement, but having said that I still have the Peavy as a back up, and when I used it a while ago it was not as bad as I thought, so I think I perceived the valve amp was much better than the Peavey, cos that's what we are led to beleive. In reallity I am certain it is better tone wise, but not by a massive amount. Because I am more experianced and have (arguabley) a better guitar, I can get better sounds out of the Peavey now than when I first had it, so there is a lot going on here in terms of perception.

I really like the Studio Pro too. I once used one in a band in preference to a Mesa Subway Rocket because the Peavey sounded better - not 'responsive' like a valve amp, but it was clearer and had a more usable EQ.

While I don't think it sounds as good as a high quality (and well-voiced, unlike my opinion of the Mesa) valve amp, I do think that if you can't get a usable sound out of something like the Studio Pro, the problem isn't the amp.

Modulus_Amps

ICBM said:

Mark1960 said:

Some interesting points here, and i beleive it's a lot to do with perception. My first electric guitar was a Columbus, cheap and chearful, and I had a small practice amp which was the size of a corflake packet, and sounded not disimilar if the truth be known, so I very quickly upgraded to a Peavey "Studio Pro" combo, which was miles better. I then upgraded the guitar to a Fender, and then a while after bought a valve amp. At each stage with the amps I noticed a big improvement, but having said that I still have the Peavy as a back up, and when I used it a while ago it was not as bad as I thought, so I think I perceived the valve amp was much better than the Peavey, cos that's what we are led to beleive. In reallity I am certain it is better tone wise, but not by a massive amount. Because I am more experianced and have (arguabley) a better guitar, I can get better sounds out of the Peavey now than when I first had it, so there is a lot going on here in terms of perception.

I really like the Studio Pro too. I once used one in a band in preference to a Mesa Subway Rocket because the Peavey sounded better - not 'responsive' like a valve amp, but it was clearer and had a more usable EQ.

While I don't think it sounds as good as a high quality (and well-voiced, unlike my opinion of the Mesa) valve amp, I do think that if you can't get a usable sound out of something like the Studio Pro, the problem isn't the amp.

My first amp was a studio pro, loved it and thought it sounded great... which it did compared to my brothers Park 10

There are good valve amps and bad ones too, I have built both, some are keepers other get re-born

Marktigere1

I believe its all to do with the sound you want to create.  Nothing more.

If you get that with a cheap SS, then great.

If its a £1000+ valve amp then again, great.

I always think of the SS Deacy amp of Brian May back in the 70's when topics like this crop up.  No valves, found in a skip and used on some of the most iconic albums of all time.

If any amp gives you the sound YOU want, then happy days

Mine happens to be a Blackheart Handsome devil with BOSS pedals.  How crap do I sound

deano

hotpickups said:

Just wanted to share this. I've been lucky enough to always having a decent amp. They've just got better and better with each iteration I've had. The thing is I think we can forget how good they are though. Last night I plugged into a crap solid state studio amp and cab and it just sounded crap compared to my valve amp.

Ok it was old and I'm not saying valves are better than solid state etc but it just made me realise that we sometimes search for the next best thing but we probably have it already with the kit we already own and may have taken it for granted. Just made me appreciate my setup even more after that session.

Any one else had that experience?

I appreciate you said it was an old SS amp and that you don't want to say valves are better, but I think it's a little unfair to match up a Bad Cat with an old SS amp. Many valve amps would struggle to maintain tonal parity with a Bad Cat, let alone an old SS.

You could compare a Blues Junior to your Bad Cat and made the same point. Some amps are just good - not good relative to something else, but just good as an absolute. Your Bad Cat being one of them.

As someone who started playing forty years ago I must say that modern gear is hands down better across the board, from beginner amps and guitars through to top of the range stuff, and I wish I could have had some of the gear available today for new players when I started, as well as the fantastic teaching material available these days. Yes the starter amps from back there and back then were bad - the first decent amp I bought was a 15w Fender Sidekick Reverb. When I got that it was so much better than the very first amp I had which was thrown in when I bought my Hondo Les Paul. I thought I was blessed to have it! But against modern amps, allowing for inflation, I am sure I could get something like a Bugera V5 for the same money, which would blow my little Sidekick out of the water.

You haven't said what the old SS amp was, but I'm sure when it was new, it would have been a good amp for the money. It's just that things have got so much better in general, and sometimes there are things that are great regardless of the time they were developed, such as your Bad Cat.

Mind you, not everything great - even your Bad Cat - is guaranteed to become a classic. My old NMV AC30 for example was a dog. I used it throughout the 80's and 90's because it was what I had and it was cheap (I bought it off my uncle who bought it new in about 1970). I heard better AC30's and worse. But it was a classic amp. It is the kind of amp you get in modelers - which is about as good a definition of what constitutes a classic amp as I can think of - and your Bad Cat might be in the modelers in a decade hence or it might not. I don't know. I know my AC30 is and Matchless are. So sounding good isn't enough to guarantee "classic" status.

I bet no modeler in existence has a Fender sidekick in it's list of models though!

I still have my Sidekick by the way. It's in my garage and I use it when I fettle my guitars. If anyone wishes to profile it for their Kemper, PM me!

hotpickups

deano said:

hotpickups said:

Just wanted to share this. I've been lucky enough to always having a decent amp. They've just got better and better with each iteration I've had. The thing is I think we can forget how good they are though. Last night I plugged into a crap solid state studio amp and cab and it just sounded crap compared to my valve amp.

Ok it was old and I'm not saying valves are better than solid state etc but it just made me realise that we sometimes search for the next best thing but we probably have it already with the kit we already own and may have taken it for granted. Just made me appreciate my setup even more after that session.

Any one else had that experience?

I appreciate you said it was an old SS amp and that you don't want to say valves are better, but I think it's a little unfair to match up a Bad Cat with an old SS amp. Many valve amps would struggle to maintain tonal parity with a Bad Cat, let alone an old SS.

You could compare a Blues Junior to your Bad Cat and made the same point. Some amps are just good - not good relative to something else, but just good as an absolute. Your Bad Cat being one of them.

As someone who started playing forty years ago I must say that modern gear is hands down better across the board, from beginner amps and guitars through to top of the range stuff, and I wish I could have had some of the gear available today for new players when I started, as well as the fantastic teaching material available these days. Yes the starter amps from back there and back then were bad - the first decent amp I bought was a 15w Fender Sidekick Reverb. When I got that it was so much better than the very first amp I had which was thrown in when I bought my Hondo Les Paul. I thought I was blessed to have it! But against modern amps, allowing for inflation, I am sure I could get something like a Bugera V5 for the same money, which would blow my little Sidekick out of the water.

You haven't said what the old SS amp was, but I'm sure when it was new, it would have been a good amp for the money. It's just that things have got so much better in general, and sometimes there are things that are great regardless of the time they were developed, such as your Bad Cat.

Mind you, not everything great - even your Bad Cat - is guaranteed to become a classic. My old NMV AC30 for example was a dog. I used it throughout the 80's and 90's because it was what I had and it was cheap (I bought it off my uncle who bought it new in about 1970). I heard better AC30's and worse. But it was a classic amp. It is the kind of amp you get in modelers - which is about as good a definition of what constitutes a classic amp as I can think of - and your Bad Cat might be in the modelers in a decade hence or it might not. I don't know. I know my AC30 is and Matchless are. So sounding good isn't enough to guarantee "classic" status.

I bet no modeler in existence has a Fender sidekick in it's list of models though!

I still have my Sidekick by the way. It's in my garage and I use it when I fettle my guitars. If anyone wishes to profile it for their Kemper, PM me!

I wasn't comparing any particular amp with that SS amp really. Just my experience that the amps I've had have been so good in comparison. They've always been valve amps but in general they have been outstanding. I just question why we continually think that other amps are better for us and need them. Maybe I've come to the end of my amp quest or simply know the sound I go for now. Bad cat and my RDA are bloody awesome though

Haych

I always find that I buy an amp in addition to one I've already got, realise having two amps is silly and sell the old one.  When the prospective new buyer comes to check out the amp I'm selling I then realise how great it sounds being played by somebody else and wish a.) I wasn't selling it and b.) it was probably everything I needed in the first place and the new amp was quite unnecessary.

Stevepage

I tried out the Marshall Kerry King head at rehearsal once and it sounded so muffled and horrible that I found a whole new appreciation for my JSX.

impmann

deano said:

hotpickups said:

Just wanted to share this. I've been lucky enough to always having a decent amp. They've just got better and better with each iteration I've had. The thing is I think we can forget how good they are though. Last night I plugged into a crap solid state studio amp and cab and it just sounded crap compared to my valve amp.

Ok it was old and I'm not saying valves are better than solid state etc but it just made me realise that we sometimes search for the next best thing but we probably have it already with the kit we already own and may have taken it for granted. Just made me appreciate my setup even more after that session.

Any one else had that experience?

I appreciate you said it was an old SS amp and that you don't want to say valves are better, but I think it's a little unfair to match up a Bad Cat with an old SS amp. Many valve amps would struggle to maintain tonal parity with a Bad Cat, let alone an old SS.

You could compare a Blues Junior to your Bad Cat and made the same point. Some amps are just good - not good relative to something else, but just good as an absolute. Your Bad Cat being one of them.

As someone who started playing forty years ago I must say that modern gear is hands down better across the board, from beginner amps and guitars through to top of the range stuff, and I wish I could have had some of the gear available today for new players when I started, as well as the fantastic teaching material available these days. Yes the starter amps from back there and back then were bad - the first decent amp I bought was a 15w Fender Sidekick Reverb. When I got that it was so much better than the very first amp I had which was thrown in when I bought my Hondo Les Paul. I thought I was blessed to have it! But against modern amps, allowing for inflation, I am sure I could get something like a Bugera V5 for the same money, which would blow my little Sidekick out of the water.

You haven't said what the old SS amp was, but I'm sure when it was new, it would have been a good amp for the money. It's just that things have got so much better in general, and sometimes there are things that are great regardless of the time they were developed, such as your Bad Cat.

Mind you, not everything great - even your Bad Cat - is guaranteed to become a classic. My old NMV AC30 for example was a dog. I used it throughout the 80's and 90's because it was what I had and it was cheap (I bought it off my uncle who bought it new in about 1970). I heard better AC30's and worse. But it was a classic amp. It is the kind of amp you get in modelers - which is about as good a definition of what constitutes a classic amp as I can think of - and your Bad Cat might be in the modelers in a decade hence or it might not. I don't know. I know my AC30 is and Matchless are. So sounding good isn't enough to guarantee "classic" status.

I bet no modeler in existence has a Fender sidekick in it's list of models though!

I still have my Sidekick by the way. It's in my garage and I use it when I fettle my guitars. If anyone wishes to profile it for their Kemper, PM me!

Funnily enough... Andy Partridge (XTC) used a Sidekick 30 for a lot of the stuff  xTC recorded... and Dave Gregory borrowed it too (a confirmed Matchless fiend). Sounded lovely too.

pintspiller

It's all a matter of relevance sometimes. Certain situations require more volume, gain or headroom.

The biggest eye-opener to me over the years has been the realisation that anything smaller than 12" in a single-speaker cab is generally useless, but a 2x or 4x cab is better than a 1x

skullfunkerry

Marktigere1 said:

I believe its all to do with the sound you want to create.  Nothing more.

If you get that with a cheap SS, then great.

If its a £1000+ valve amp then again, great.

I always think of the SS Deacy amp of Brian May back in the 70's when topics like this crop up.  No valves, found in a skip and used on some of the most iconic albums of all time.

If any amp gives you the sound YOU want, then happy days

Mine happens to be a Blackheart Handsome devil with BOSS pedals.  How crap do I sound

^ exactly this. The other guitarist in the first metal band I was in had a Marshall Valvestate head and it worked really well with my Orange Rockerverb: when he finally got the money for a 'decent' amp he got a Peavey 5150 and the band's sound instantly became a lot muddier and less well-defined. His amp sounded great on its own but it totally clashed with my amp and as a result you couldn't hear either of us properly any more