RED DOG MUSIC IN DIFFICULTIES - hence administration

Guitar_Slinger

Not loyal, no. This comes from spending time with my grandparents who, over the years have gone into a local shop and bought something on the day. Always on the advice of the person in the local shop and only the items they stock (or can get access to). When my Grandad died and my nan wanted a new telly, she couldn't believe we could look up stuff on my phone, check stock and reserve one at an electrical superstore on some industrial estate she'd never been to.

kt66

DanR said:

How loyal are modern customers nowadays.

Do we all just google everything and pick the cheapest price where ever it is?

I try to buy local and most of my purchases are through one shop unless they don’t stock it.

I normally get looked after so I prefer to buy through them wherever possible.

I'm going to Brighton for the weekend, the wife foolishly thinks it's for a romantic weekend , but I will be buying my xmas present. 

The shop with the best service will get my money, so that's Brighton Guitars or Mudpie. I will go into GAK,  they will get another chance but I know at first I'll be ignored or will get poor personal service at best. Go on GAK prove me wrong.

I don't care about the price, within reason, it's the experience and after sales service that matters to me.

TheBigDipper

kt66 said:

DanR said:

How loyal are modern customers nowadays.

Do we all just google everything and pick the cheapest price where ever it is?

I try to buy local and most of my purchases are through one shop unless they don’t stock it.

I normally get looked after so I prefer to buy through them wherever possible.

I'm going to Brighton for the weekend, the wife foolishly thinks it's for a romantic weekend , but I will be buying my xmas present. 

The shop with the best service will get my money, so that's Brighton Guitars or Mudpie. I will go into GAK,  they will get another chance but I know at first I'll be ignored or will get poor personal service at best. Go on GAK prove me wrong.

I don't care about the price, within reason, it's the experience and after sales service that matters to me.

I was in Brighton Guitars two weeks ago. They had  several nice Furch acoustics upstairs and an interesting '70s Starcaster downstairs. Just sayin'. 

guitars4you

Guitar_Slinger said:

Not loyal, no. This comes from spending time with my grandparents who, over the years have gone into a local shop and bought something on the day. Always on the advice of the person in the local shop and only the items they stock (or can get access to). When my Grandad died and my nan wanted a new telly, she couldn't believe we could look up stuff on my phone, check stock and reserve one at an electrical superstore on some industrial estate she'd never been to.

The TV/electrical store is interesting - We had a local white goods store in town - Old family business - It has now closed and we all know why

However I used it when I could and needed such items - Be it a fridge or TV  - They would deliver for you, and give you a time f delivery and adjust as required  - So no need to stay in all day waiting for a UPS van, which should, but might not come - In the case of say a TV, they would bring it, take away all the packaging - Set it up with the Sky box + DVD etc so everything interfaced and worked - No need to reed the manual, so just get home get the remote and sit down and watch - That has all gone now - Prices were competitive without been the cheapest - last item I purchased, before they closed down and WWW. was £20 cheaper on a £300 item, but my local store was more convenient when you took everything else into account

But inevitably they can't survive

Paul7926

DanR said:

How loyal are modern customers nowadays.

Loyalty has to be earned. 

Mostly that has gone because the employee of Big-Chain-Stores is on a low hourly wage and really couldn't care less if you buy anything or not.  In fact a bothersome customer who wants to know things is interrupting their chat with the other employee about what they did last night or plan to do tonight.  

Couple that with peoples ability to do their own research and I find that now I often know more about a product that the person in the shop anyway.

I will pay more for a product if I do get good customer service, especially when things have gone wrong and I'm trying to return or sort something out.  Quite frankly though that happens more with online retailers than local ones.  They tend to have help lines and online interactive support outside of shop opening hours.  

DanR

Guitar_Slinger said:

Not loyal, no. This comes from spending time with my grandparents who, over the years have gone into a local shop and bought something on the day. Always on the advice of the person in the local shop and only the items they stock (or can get access to). When my Grandad died and my nan wanted a new telly, she couldn't believe we could look up stuff on my phone, check stock and reserve one at an electrical superstore on some industrial estate she'd never been to.

What’s wrong with the shop they used to used?

Buying from a Electrical Superstore doesn’t really fill me with any sort confidence.

If they are anything like Curry’s/PC World they will be recommending a £100 HDMI cable to people who don’t know better.

scrumhalf

The High Street as it was is no more. Indivudual, non-chain, shops are dying.

This poses an interesting problem. There are only so many coffee shops and the like that can be supported before you reach saturation. Then what?

Rents cannot survive in this environment at the leves they have been. Things have already changed over the past decade, you will rarely find ayone signing up tot a 25-year lease with upward-only rent reviews. Commercial rates are killing retail. When I worked in commercial property we would take a short-term void in order to maintain rental values. When rent reviews are based on local rents and you've signed a sweetheart deal just to get a void filled that will bite you on the arse for future rent reviews for other tenants.

So what will happen? I think internet shopping has a way to go yet, delivery is an area that could do with significant improvement.

Looking at the musical instrument market it seems obvious to me that there has to be some sort of marriage between those retailers and others, maybe concessions in larger stores. If a shop offers good customer service then it's probably on sounder footing but I have no problem waving goodbye to those businesses who seemed only to be interested in people who were "buying today" and whose staff were, to put it mildly, crap.

We live in interesting times.

Guitar_Slinger

DanR said:

Guitar_Slinger said:

Not loyal, no. This comes from spending time with my grandparents who, over the years have gone into a local shop and bought something on the day. Always on the advice of the person in the local shop and only the items they stock (or can get access to). When my Grandad died and my nan wanted a new telly, she couldn't believe we could look up stuff on my phone, check stock and reserve one at an electrical superstore on some industrial estate she'd never been to.

What’s wrong with the shop they used to used?

Buying from a Electrical Superstore doesn’t really fill me with any sort confidence.

If they are anything like Curry’s/PC World they will be recommending a £100 HDMI cable to people who don’t know better.

They were old, didn't know what they wanted and were from a time when questions asked in a shop/business got the best answer for you, rather than the salesperson.  Half the time, stuff from the local small shop was either too complicated or didn't suit their needs, so it would be given to a relative/charity shop and replaced

While I agree my widowed nan would have got even more screwed over by an electrical superstore,she had stayed with us, liked our TV's remote and asked me to buy her the same one

Guitar_Slinger

Hey, I say not loyal but can think of a couple of small examples. Leather goods (guitar strap/belt/wallet) from the same company. I'm also holding out on buying guitar strings at the Guitar Show - same brand from the same person I usually buy from. On the other hand, it's my son's birthday next week and his present will come from whoever does it cheapest online... back on topic!

skaguitar

I don't know why but I keep getting notifications about this thread...I didn't start it so not sure why..?

Freebird

skaguitar said:

I don't know why but I keep getting notifications about this thread...I didn't start it so not sure why..?

Maybe you clicked the "follow" star next to the title?

skaguitar

Freebird said:

skaguitar said:

I don't know why but I keep getting notifications about this thread...I didn't start it so not sure why..?

Maybe you clicked the "follow" star?

thanks... I must have done that by accident...!! ..lol

Jez6345789

Its a sad state of affairs and a lot of valid points made its almost becoming a perfect storm for retail. 

Internet is aggressive and getting better, 
Distance selling allows people to effectively try before they buy 
Showrooming products and buying online is still a problem. 
Local high street rent and rate costs are disproportionate to what profit can be achieved through a small to medium retail store. 

I admire stores like Coda who have worked hard to bring in more niche brands like Fano and the others to differentiate them from the normal Gibson Fender type stores to add value to the retail experience. 
Andertons with online media and there are other good examples of stores adapting to the new realities of retailing with combined music and learning centres and rehearsal space. 

All that said if I was a retailer and I had more than 10 years before retirement and getting out I would be making plans now to make provision for my retirement that did not include a profit from selling the business. As the retail value and the chances of having a successful retail guitar business in 10 years will be not great there will be a solid decline with a few stores that survive. 

Look at the world of cameras when I was young and a  keen photographer there was probably 5 camera dealer in my town all there for years and making a good living. Now there are none. You still have some camera stores that combine online with retail and learning but they are like one or two per county. 

I also think the industry has not helped itself with restrictive practices over the years that favour more and more big box stores over the smaller specialist. Unless you are amazingly over capitalised it is very hard for a good local store to sell little Johnny his first squire and then 5 years on when he starts work sell him his top end guitar. From the outside, it seems a ludicrous situation that you make and develop a customer and then in your own town cannot sell him his first proper grown-up guitar. I have a good relationship with my local store always good for coffee and a chat but if I wanted them to sell me a top end guitar they could not even buy one or if they could it would be so uncompetitive against Andertons or one of the big box stores. I think those policies over the year have gone a long way to killing the smaller shops off. 




 

capo4th

People are specific in what they want and the high street doesn’t and cannot stock everything. Online ordering is easy and if you don’t like it send it back usually at £0 or minimal cost. I wanted some winter waterproof outdoor gear. Ordered loads of stuff online sent half of it back kept 5 things I liked. Got to try them all on in the comfort of my own home and didn’t have to deal with other irritating humans on the high street. Slightly different to buying a guitar but the same principles apply.

guitars4you

Jez6345789 said:

Its a sad state of affairs and a lot of valid points made its almost becoming a perfect storm for retail. 

Internet is aggressive and getting better, 
Distance selling allows people to effectively try before they buy 
Showrooming products and buying online is still a problem. 
Local high street rent and rate costs are disproportionate to what profit can be achieved through a small to medium retail store. 

I admire stores like Coda who have worked hard to bring in more niche brands like Fano and the others to differentiate them from the normal Gibson Fender type stores to add value to the retail experience. 
Andertons with online media and there are other good examples of stores adapting to the new realities of retailing with combined music and learning centres and rehearsal space. 

All that said if I was a retailer and I had more than 10 years before retirement and getting out I would be making plans now to make provision for my retirement that did not include a profit from selling the business. As the retail value and the chances of having a successful retail guitar business in 10 years will be not great there will be a solid decline with a few stores that survive. 

Look at the world of cameras when I was young and a  keen photographer there was probably 5 camera dealer in my town all there for years and making a good living. Now there are none. You still have some camera stores that combine online with retail and learning but they are like one or two per county. 

I also think the industry has not helped itself with restrictive practices over the years that favour more and more big box stores over the smaller specialist. Unless you are amazingly over capitalised it is very hard for a good local store to sell little Johnny his first squire and then 5 years on when he starts work sell him his top end guitar. From the outside, it seems a ludicrous situation that you make and develop a customer and then in your own town cannot sell him his first proper grown-up guitar. I have a good relationship with my local store always good for coffee and a chat but if I wanted them to sell me a top end guitar they could not even buy one or if they could it would be so uncompetitive against Andertons or one of the big box stores. I think those policies over the year have gone a long way to killing the smaller shops off. 




 

great post - many valid comments

I don't see anyone needing or wanting to buy such a business as mine in 5-10 years - In fact I still wish to be part of it - So my plans are already in process -  So the guitar shows I already exhibit at, a web site offering, small office which I already have lined up, Reverb - And probably 50 or so nice guitars - All used - Something that brings in a little extra to a pension - is easy and fun to operate - Keeps me interested plus surrounded by guitars - After all my hobby is my business - Hell I might even do a bit of playing again in some commercial activity

I know of a few stores that are up for sale in the UK and I can't see anyone needing to buy them

Moe_Zambeek

kt66 said:

Mid range, high volume, low price, high street shops are toast.

In 10 years time High Streets will be homes, places to eat and drink, hairdressers and luxury shops.
I've also heard from a great source that Supermarkets days are numbered too.

Some needs to blow up Amazon

I’m not sure it’s really a problem - for some reason people have decided that traipsing round uninspiring shops looking for mediocre goods at high prices was a wonderful thing we all did in the past, when in fact it was a chore and we only did it because we had to. 

I still believe theres a place for truly great bricks and mortar shops but there’s going to be fewer of them and they’re going to have to be great online stores too. 

Edit to add - as far as Red Dog are concerned, their shop in Edinburgh was pretty poor, then got a whole lot worse when they opened in London and shipped literally all the interesting gear down there. Their online shop was rubbish, stock images for everything and hard to navigate, completely devoid of any personality and their stock was bland and could be found anywhere. They had no USP at all.

ICBM

Moe_Zambeek said:

Edit to add - as far as Red Dog are concerned, their shop in Edinburgh was pretty poor, then got a whole lot worse when they opened in London and shipped literally all the interesting gear down there.

I didn’t realise they’d done that. That would explain why I thought they were in trouble last time I went in a few months ago.

As already said, sad but unsurprising.

pmbomb

JimmyWings said:

At the root of it all is people's unwillingness to leave their houses for things like shopping. The internet.... siiigh....

that's because shopping is not a pleasant experience.

chris45

@guitars4you - sorry for my ignorance but in the music instrument world, who "owns" the stock in a shop?  Have the shop bought it from e.g. Fender and it's theirs to sell on subject to the pricing agreement with Fender.  Or in some cases do Fender still own it?

mgaw

the shopping "experience" will be developed by savvy operators to be a lot more interactive and attractive to consumers...in store events, mini concerts, food and drink etc etc will be increasingly necessary to persuade people to make the journey