Fender locking tuners.

skunkwerx

Some of you may have seen a couple previous posts where I mention a grover tuner issue on a Chapman guitar . The high e slipping out of it entirely when at pitch. 

Anyway I re-strung my American Special tele earlier and the same damn thing happened.. 

I strung straight through the post, kinked the string, then began tuning up, getting about 2 wraps around the post before it was at pitch. 

Stretched the string in a few times, tuned back to pitch, snipped the end off, stretched once more and tuned once more. 

However after doing a series of bends on the high e, its out of tune. So I retuned and did some bends, again its flat. This happened about 5 times before I tuned up once again and the entire string unravelled from the post and popped off. 

It didnt break anywhere I could see, just simply unwound.

Its as if with every bend and tune to pitch I did, the string slipped a little more, and eventually there wasnt enough windings around the post to hold it on at all. 

Its strange that this has never happened to me in years of stringing this way, then it begins happening on 2 guitars with different tuners in quick succesion. 

It only ever happens on the high e, of which I use a .09. But the same thing doesnt appear to happen when I restring my Ltd guitar with the same gauge high e. Its weird.

Anyway doing the one up two below wrapping/locking method seems to work and keep it stable, as it does with the grover loaded guitar.

Though it got me thinking, would a set of Fenders own locking tuners be a direct replacement for my American Special? Its an '18 model with Fenders cast/sealed tuners. 

I would imagine they would also cure this strange happening, as the strings would be locked in place no?  

I have read that the locking types are staggared. I'm not sure if the current ones on my tele are or not to be honest.. though it does have a string tree.. 

Any insight appreciated! 

Funkfingers

On some types of locking tuner, the hole through which the string has to pass is intentionally drilled off centre. It is, therefore, essential to align the tuner post the correct way around before stringing up. Otherwise, particularly on the thinner strings, the grip cannot be depended upon.

ICBM

I think the Fender locking tuners should be a straight replacement. They do have staggered posts - at least the ones on a posh Tele I'm working on now do, as well as a string tree.

If you're getting string slipping issues on conventional posts I find by far the best method is the half-back-turn and pull-up-under way, which is both more secure than any other sensible method and quicker, since you should only have about half a turn on the post.

The only slight problem is that you usually have to allow a bit more winding on the G string post if they aren't staggered, and sometimes the D.

CasperCaster

Firstly, locking tuners are quick and easy, but more a luxury than a necessity. If you string your guitar up properly you don't need them, and I suspect from your description you've just been lucky all these years!

Anyway, the current Ping manufactured Fender locking tuners and older Schaller manufactured Fender locking tuners (or current Schaller F-type two pin mount tuners) are a direct fit for the American Special guitars. The listed locking tuners, the standard cast/sealed tuners and American Standard/Pro tuners all mount the same way - principally secured via the banjo/reach bolt which mounts from front to back (the one the string post passes through) and with two hidden pins in the back of the casing which stop the tuner itself moving/rotating. Swapping from your current tuners to replacement Fender locking ones is just a couple of minutes work. The locking ones have staggered posts, so the g, b and high e are physically lower than the E, A and D, which can remove the need for a string tree, though I personally think one is still necessary on the b and e. I also think at least one wind on the post is desirable, and probably three on the D, as it atually benefits from a bit more break angle - Fender have missed a trick and should stagger the posts 4+2 (4 low, 2 high). Just my two pennies.

skunkwerx

Cheers guys. 

Its bizarre its just happening more frequently on and on another guitar now!

I'll research the half back turn thing and give it a go next time.

Maybe my stringing technique just isnt very good, but it seems to hold fine on the majority of guitars I've had over the years.

Would you say its a cause for concern that the high e slips like this? Or is it just a matter of really using a different stringing method?

I'm guessing it only seems to happen on the high e, because the .09 is the thinnest... 

ICBM

skunkwerx said:

Cheers guys. 

Its bizarre its just happening more frequently on and on another guitar now!

I'll research the half back turn thing and give it a go next time.

Maybe my stringing technique just isnt very good, but it seems to hold fine on the majority of guitars I've had over the years.

Would you say its a cause for concern that the high e slips like this? Or is it just a matter of really using a different stringing method?

I'm guessing it only seems to happen on the high e, because the .09 is the thinnest... 

It's always the thinnest strings that slip.

I used the 'one over and one/two under' method for many years, but even then I would get the occasional 'slipper' - old Grover machineheads were actually the worst, the 'milk bottle' type seem to have very soft edges to the hole in the post.

Since I learned the 'half-back-turn and pull-up' method, I've never had a single string slip, ever. It's by far the best method in my opinion - easy, quick, and rock-solid, but also easy to remove again. It's amazingly hard to find an online video of the easiest and best way of doing it though... any number of how to do it wrong!

This is the closest I could find on a quick search, although he pulls the string back too far in my opinion - about 1/4" is plenty.



I start with the machinehead set with the hole at right-angles to the string, not parallel to it - then pull the string through until it's almost tight, loop it round the far side of the post and back under the main part of the string, pull up, and wind on - takes seconds, and totally secure with about half a turn to a turn on the post.

On Fender-type slotted posts I do something slightly different - for the top two strings I poke them down the hole as normal, then go a half-turn the wrong way round the post, back across the slot, then wind on normally. Likewise this never slips.