Dead guitars and pick ups?

robgilmo

So Im sitting there thinking,  in the nHiFi world decoupling your gear from unwanted resonances is a good thing, then my attention turned to my guitars, shouldn't that be the same? What goes in should be exactly the same as what comes out? So ,  a dead sounding  electric guitar when played acoustically should be the purest sounding guitar when played through an amp, anything else is just coloured by resonances produced by anything but the strings vibrating and picked up by the pickups? So, pickup characteristics cannot be determined by anything other than an acoustically dead guitar? Does that make sense?

RiftAmps

HiFi and LoFi have different goals, characteristics, and operating conditions.

The most obvious one is that unlike HiFi, we’re actively encouraging distortion even when set for ‘clean’ operation. Plug your guitar into a modern bass amplifier to hear what cleans sound like with only 0.1%thd! 

guitars4you

RiftAmps said:

HiFi and LoFi have different goals, characteristics, and operating conditions.

The most obvious one is that unlike HiFi, we’re actively encouraging distortion even when set for ‘clean’ operation. Plug your guitar into a modern bass amplifier to hear what cleans sound like with only 0.1%thd! 

interesting slant on that Chris - recall some old ads from Selmer amps in the early 60's claiming a 'superior' clean tone - yet when turned up they all distort at some % of gain or another

ICBM

robgilmo said:

So Im sitting there thinking,  in the nHiFi world decoupling your gear from unwanted resonances is a good thing, then my attention turned to my guitars, shouldn't that be the same? What goes in should be exactly the same as what comes out? So ,  a dead sounding  electric guitar when played acoustically should be the purest sounding guitar when played through an amp, anything else is just coloured by resonances produced by anything but the strings vibrating and picked up by the pickups? So, pickup characteristics cannot be determined by anything other than an acoustically dead guitar? Does that make sense?

The problem is that most guitar pickups are microphonic to some degree, so the body vibration affects the sound as well as what it’s picking up from the string movement. Not a lot, but it’s the subtle nuances which give otherwise very similar pickups their character.

A good example of pickups which aren’t are EMGs... which are very ‘pure’, but many people also find ‘sterile’.

RiftAmps said:

HiFi and LoFi have different goals, characteristics, and operating conditions.

The most obvious one is that unlike HiFi, we’re actively encouraging distortion even when set for ‘clean’ operation. Plug your guitar into a modern bass amplifier to hear what cleans sound like with only 0.1%thd! 

What I’ve always found a bit strange is that despite being essentially the same thing tuned an octave apart, a very clean bass sound is thought to be desirable - even to the point of DI’ing the instrument straight to the desk/PA - whereas a guitar amplified that cleanly is thought to sound terrible.

I may be a bit unusual (or just a bass player ) in that I actually like a DI’d electric guitar sound, for some things.

Hi-fi is a very different thing again, and it’s not much of an exaggeration that what’s best for hi-fi is worst for guitar, and vice versa.

OilCityPickups

Exactly what @ICBM says: unless you epoxy pot a pickup so that no internal part can move relative to another in use you will always get some microphony. This microphonic nature is actually the joy of normal passive pickups ... and what gives them endlessly different harmonic responses. By the way, wax potting, even vacuum wax potting never totally deadens microphony ... only potting in a hard medium. 

Sassafras

Another one for @Three-ColourSunburst ;

Funkfingers

robgilmo said:

pickup characteristics cannot be determined by anything other than an acoustically dead guitar? Does that make sense?

A few of the more determined nutters and trolls on the Seymour Duncan User Group forum would construct things resembling science laboratory apparatus to demonstrate whatever pet theory they felt the need to prove. (Anything to “win” an argument on t’Interweb.) 

String resonances can be damped, if desired. Unusual resonances are my reason/excuse for owning a Fender Jaguar. It’s riddled with them. 

TheGuitarWeasel said:

joy

Find it where you can, folks.

Philly_Q

Sassafras said:

Another one for @Three-ColourSunburst ;

I was thinking exactly the same.  Where is our resident hard-headed, cut-through-the-bullshit man of science?

On the acoustically dead guitar thing... I think that does come into play somewhat with the classic heavy as a ten ton heavy thing Les Paul Custom.  I don't like dead-weight, no-resonance guitars to pick up and play but it doesn't mean that, plugged in, they can't sound amazing.

guitars4you

Philly_Q said:

Sassafras said:

Another one for @Three-ColourSunburst ;;

I was thinking exactly the same.  Where is our resident hard-headed, cut-through-the-bullshit man of science?

On the acoustically dead guitar thing... I think that does come into play somewhat with the classic heavy as a ten ton heavy thing Les Paul Custom.  I don't like dead-weight, no-resonance guitars to pick up and play but it doesn't mean that, plugged in, they can't sound amazing.

ditto on the 3 colour burst thought 

and ditto similar thoughts on an LP Custom and thinking of the likes of Z Wylde  Saturated gain - EMG's etc so a 'lifeless' body will have 'less' impact on the overall voice - This is just a hunch and not a scientific fact 

Personally my first test on any guitar, any make, any price, is unplugged and then take it from there

Philly_Q

guitars4you said:

Personally my first test on any guitar, any make, any price, is unplugged and then take it from there

Me too.  If I ever start gigging (...unlikely) and actually have to plug in, my whole philosophy may change.

Sassafras

I wouldn't dream of buying a guitar I hadn't first tried un-amplified. It gives me better idea of which strings might sound a bit less lively than others.