Time for a boycott of Japanese products?

usedtobe

I don’t really buy anything made in Japan, so I couldn’t join in with a boycott thing..

PolarityMan

heavyrocker said:

crunchman said:

If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale.  The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely.  They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

I’ve never understood this argument as a way of justifying killing something. Humans can be killed humanely - does that mean it’s okay to kill them too?

The reason it’s wrong to kill a whale is because they are highly intelligent, sophisticated animals. By killing a whale you’ve denied it the life it would have gone on to live. It could also be a mother, so there could also be other unintended consequences in killing it. Pigs are also intelligent animals, at least as intelligent as dogs. Would you be okay with killing dogs humanely?

The idea that humans are somehow distinct from other animals so that makes it okay to kill animals but not humans is complete nonesense. We just happen to be the most intelligent species on the planet (allegedly). That might give us more responsibility but it doesn’t give us any more right to be here per se or to use animals for our own means.

When we needed to eat animals just to survive that’s one thing but now we eat animals to get fat and ultimately it’s making us ill, it’s unsustainable and it is destroying the planet and contributing to climate change. If the human species wants to survive we will have to stop eating meat, at least at the unsustainable level we do now.

Merry Christmas everyone!

I think there's also the bio-diversity angle given they are endangered too.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

They've been taking the piss for thirty years with their 'scientific' whaling, but it now looks like they're going to even drop the pretence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46682976

Some of you might not feel that this matters, but if you do then there's a simple way to express your disapproval. Don't buy Japanese products.

If you don't think it will make any difference, the popular economic boycott was a factor in the downfall of the South African apartheid regime.

Oh please. Do you buy products with plastic packaging? Then you're part of a global problem. Shit in the ocean causes more damage and death to whales and other marine life than the Jap Whaling fleet. You just don't see it whereas fishing is in your face. What about the UK's fishing fleets empting the seas? Like fish and chips?

This has been going on for years .. don't recall many threads on here though ....

Issues facing whales and dolphins:

https://uk.whales.org/issues/pollution

145 whales beached - this is now becoming common ..

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/28/asia/hiker-save-whales-beached-new-zealand-scli-intl/index.html

Bellycaster

Grunfeld said:

Bellycaster said:

I wouldn't eat Veal or Whale, but I still think Derek and Clive are bloody hilarious.

That's funny.  Not heard it in years.  Thanks for posting it.

"whales unite

whales will fight

whales will go on eating plankton

whales are nice

full of spice

and we don't like being wanked on!"

I naturally had to listen to more of them after that and was in tears laughing, especially the one about his "worst ever job" of retrieving Lobsters from Jayne Mansfield's Arsehole.

Veganic

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

They've been taking the piss for thirty years with their 'scientific' whaling, but it now looks like they're going to even drop the pretence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46682976

Some of you might not feel that this matters, but if you do then there's a simple way to express your disapproval. Don't buy Japanese products.

If you don't think it will make any difference, the popular economic boycott was a factor in the downfall of the South African apartheid regime.

Oh please. Do you buy products with plastic packaging? Then you're part of a global problem. Shit in the ocean causes more damage and death to whales and other marine life than the Jap Whaling fleet. You just don't see it whereas fishing is in your face. What about the UK's fishing fleets empting the seas? Like fish and chips?

This has been going on for years .. don't recall many threads on here though ....

Issues facing whales and dolphins:

https://uk.whales.org/issues/pollution

145 whales beached - this is now becoming common ..

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/28/asia/hiker-save-whales-beached-new-zealand-scli-intl/index.html

We'll chalk that one up as a "no" then?

fandango

crunchman said:

What Japan is doing is not good, but as said above, it's not nearly as bad as what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs.  I don't see lots of calls to boycott iPhones, and other Chinese made products.

Given their human rights record, we should see a lot of calls to boycott Saudi oil.  Don't recall seeing any.

Drew is right in some ways.  If we are willing to eat bacon and steak then in some ways we can't really condemn too loudly.  If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale.  The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely.  They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

Personally I don't think we should be killing them, but there are more important issues.

There is also the hypocrisy.  There are probably a lot more whales (and other animals) suffering and dying as a result plastic pollution from all  the countries that are loudly condemning Japan.

Then there’s the treatment of the Kurds by Turkey. Where’s the outrage there, and the call to boycott Turkey. Or the persecution of Christians in the middle east?

There’s some double standards going on here, and as Octafish mentions, way too much virtue signalling. Bleating about whales? Far too many other world issues that tops whales.

As for plastic and waste material, are you aware of the garbage islands / patches in the middle of each of the major oceans? Look it up. Well documented. Can we pressure Greenpeace and the other environmental NGOs to clear those instead?

Hattigol

fandango said:

crunchman said:

What Japan is doing is not good, but as said above, it's not nearly as bad as what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs.  I don't see lots of calls to boycott iPhones, and other Chinese made products.

Given their human rights record, we should see a lot of calls to boycott Saudi oil.  Don't recall seeing any.

Drew is right in some ways.  If we are willing to eat bacon and steak then in some ways we can't really condemn too loudly.  If you could kill both humanely, then there wouldn't really be any difference between a pig and a whale.  The problem is that, as far as I know, the whales can't be killed humanely.  They are too big to die instantly and will suffer.

Personally I don't think we should be killing them, but there are more important issues.

There is also the hypocrisy.  There are probably a lot more whales (and other animals) suffering and dying as a result plastic pollution from all  the countries that are loudly condemning Japan.

Then there’s the treatment of the Kurds by Turkey. Where’s the outrage there, and the call to boycott Turkey. Or the persecution of Christians in the middle east?

There’s some double standards going on here, and as Octafish mentions, way too much virtue signalling. Bleating about whales? Far too many other world issues that tops whales.

As for plastic and waste material, are you aware of the garbage islands / patches in the middle of each of the major oceans? Look it up. Well documented. Can we pressure Greenpeace and the other environmental NGOs to clear those instead?

And the constant victimisation of PRS owners, which gets ignored by the mainstream press...

Fretwired

Veganic said:

We'll chalk that one up as a "no" then?

The Japs will stop when they get their quote of 333 whales. I'm wondering where the 'ban buying Jap products' thread was for 2017. The Japanese whaling fleet set sail in November 2017 and slaughtered 333 minke whales, flouting a worldwide moratorium and opposition led by Australia and New Zealand. They did the same in 2016. Nobody said anything

Norway boosts whaling quota despite international opposition. Norway has announced a 28% increase of its annual whaling quota to 1,278 whales in 2018 in a bid to revive the declining hunt amid international controversy. Whalers have for several years failed to meet the quotas set by Oslo and the number of whaling boats has plunged.

“I hope the quota and the merging of fishing zones will be a good starting point for a good season for the whaling industry,” fisheries minister Per Sandberg said.

Norway does not consider itself bound by a 1986 international moratorium on whaling, to which it formally objected.

In a twist of fate Norwegian boats are catching fewer whales due to global warming as the whales head further away from Norwegian waters where they can find cold water.

Why aren't we campaigning against Norway and Iceland?

And the Arctic sea ice hosts algae, which sustain a food chain up to the beluga whale. But the ice is decreasing – and in summers, it may be gone entirely by 2050 which could spell the end of the beluga whale. Nobody seems to care.

And what about the Faroe Islanders’ ritual slaughter of pilot whales that turns sea blood red - up to 1,000 whales are killed every year. Can't recall a thread about this barbaric act on here.

But stop buying Jap goods if you want to .. it won't help the whale population which in some areas is declining rapidly due to pollution, global warming and interference from man (sonar etc).

Wolfetone

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the OP's point, I think that we should be careful about throwing stones in our British glasshouse where foxhunting, although technically banned, is still alive and well  

I totally understand that protesting against whaling and foxhunting aren't mutually exclusive activities but there's a risk of being accused of double standards by those whaling nations. 

We need to be also putting our own house in order. 

heavyrocker

Some woolly arguments on this thread. Someone says “rape is wrong” to which half the responses are “yeah but people are getting murdered all the time, where’s the outrage at that?”

Just because there are other examples of dubious practices going on it doesn’t invalidate the original point. If someone wants to make a thread about an injustice they see in the world do they now have make threads about every other injustice first, otherwise they get accused of being inconsistent?

historyisjunk

@heavyrocker   well said. Also accusations of "virtue signalling" often just seem to be the signalling of greater virtuousness.

I think the animals Vs people is an artificial dualism- it is possible to be deeply concerned about both. Once you start with "this issue is more important" or "this atrocity is worse than that" it reaches no end. Presumably you also then start a hierarchy of human misery.

ICBM

I completely agree that there are other much worse issues. That doesn't mean that it's pointless to raise this one (although I did use a question mark...) - especially from what Sleepyscholar said about it being something that's being pushed by a minority in Japan who probably don't have a lot of public support.

Stopping killing whales isn't going to save the planet by itself, but it would be another small step towards being more responsible for it in general. It's also interesting to find that the same sort of vociferous minority is trying to push whaling in Norway when it seems to be declining anyway.

ToneControl

What if the Muslim countries decided to stop trading in oil and gas with us, because we eat pork?

usedtobe

heavyrocker said:

Some woolly arguments on this thread. Someone says “rape is wrong” to which half the responses are “yeah but people are getting murdered all the time, where’s the outrage at that?”

Just because there are other examples of dubious practices going on it doesn’t invalidate the original point. If someone wants to make a thread about an injustice they see in the world do they now have make threads about every other injustice first, otherwise they get accused of being inconsistent?

Good point, well made!

Logie

I agree ICBM is entitled to post whatever subject he likes but if he is inviting comment surely he wants peoples actual viewpoints rather than a nod of acquiesence. I abhor cruelty to all living things. We really may be the only planet in the universe to support life and we treat it with utter contempt in the main. My comment ' why are whales an exception? ' is surely a valid question to the original post?

ThePrettyDamned

ToneControl said:

What if the Muslim countries decided to stop trading in oil and gas with us, because we eat pork?

To be honest, it would cause short term harm and likely long term global benefit from renewable sources and sustainable practice. 

Maybe. 


Okay, its a long shot, but it wouldn't end the world. Just hurt a lot. 

ICBM

Logie said:

I agree ICBM is entitled to post whatever subject he likes but if he is inviting comment surely he wants peoples actual viewpoints rather than a nod of acquiesence.

Yes. I was interested to see if there was a strong feeling about it, and all viewpoints are welcome. Not unexpectedly, it's a mixed bag - if anything I'm slightly surprised that there seems to be a small majority against whaling... I thought a lot of people might not care, or think there were more important things to get worked up about. Which there are, but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Logie

It would take a bigger thread than this to list the ways in which we exploit and inflict cruelty on the natural world in the drive for cheap products/ food sources. It is right to be indignant about it and I wasn't criticising your point of view but it's a big rabbit hole to go down which is why most people just ignore what's happening and get on with their lives.  

stickyfiddle

ToneControl said:

What if the Muslim countries decided to stop trading in oil and gas with us, because we eat pork?

Most muslim countries have pork and alcohol within them anyway (except Saudi and Kuwait). I had bacon for breakfast and am about to have a G&T. 

Tolerance is nice, eh?

littlegreenman

stickyfiddle said:

Most muslim countries have pork and alcohol within them anyway (except Saudi and Kuwait). I had a public execution for breakfast.

Tolerance is nice, eh?

FTFY