Advice on buying a Les Paul

Bill_S

Just looking for your views on buying a Les Paul. I first bought one in 1979 (showing my age), but have not owned a Les Paul since the early 80s. I have only relatively recently become aware of the bad publicity about quality control at Gibson, and to be honest it was shock to me – I’m obviously naïve about this, but I always assumed Gibson was a “gold standard” and you were paying for a quality product. I have read that recent models CAN be good from a QC perspective but some are not so good. I suppose I should have picked up on this when I bought my SG in 2004, and to my surprise the tape around the pickups was messy, but I didn’t really give it much thought at the time. 

So, I am not going to gig this instrument, I have a small studio in which I record my own material playing through amp sims (Scuffham S- Gear) – I don’t have or intend to buy a real amp. The point is, I think, that the weight of an instrument shouldn’t be an issue because I will be sat down all the time.

 I am not sure about buying a reissue/custom shop instrument. My personal feeling at the moment is that I’d prefer a real vintage instrument than a replica ’59…I don’t doubt for a moment that the latter are excellent guitars and may provide best bang for buck – I guess I’m open to persuasion, but I really like the thought of owning an excellent second hand Les Paul from a few years back. Are there particular years when you are pretty much certain to get a “good one”?

 Another alternative would be a brand new Les Paul – but that’s where I worry about the QC issue, and to be honest, I would not be confident of identifying if there were issues until after I bought it. Seems crazy you have to pay double for a custom shop, when one of the main benefits of doing so is that you won’t inadvertently get a dud.

 I like the idea of a Standard, but the Custom seems to look very similar – looking for enlightenment.

 In recent years I have been recording using a Strat mainly, so the thought of hot pickups as an alternative appeals to me for this purchase (although I still have that ’04 SG - bonus question(!) - what will a Les Paul "give me" that an SG won't, if you know what I mean?)

 I’m fairly flexible on budget, but thinking in terms of a c. £3k maximum.

 The final thing is…although I’m British, I now live in Spain. So popping down the road to try out an instrument for sale in the classifieds is not really an option. I do go back to the UK from time to time, and that will give me the opportunity to try a few guitars out.

 Sorry for rambling on but any pointers in my quest would be greatly appreciated.

webrthomson

When buying a LP try many, many guitars there is a lot of variability in them and finding one you like might take a while - try and not shop with your eyes, hard as that is

 I’ve not had any real issues with modern GC, I more take issue with their pricing TBH, although Gibson QC is not as good as some (PRS for instance) normally it’s fine with a few exceptions.

The 1958 / 1959 / 1960 (R8, R9 and R0 respectively) are, as you suggest, Gibson’s attempt to replicate the “Golden era” LP’s and have PAF style pickups.

The standard is the test bed for new stuff (surround less pickups, push pulls on the controls, robot tuners, etc.), the Traditional model is the non-custom shop nod to the standard old school LP and the custom is mostly the same with an Ebony fingerboard (some years have a bigger headstock and they used richlite for a while for the fingerboard). Just for fun they do a classic model too – 2017 that had P90’s, this year it’s got humbuckers.

Honestly, I’d work out what model one you like and take it from there!

There is also a rather nice 1976 LP in the classified here – I’ve got the same model from 1977 – not affiliated in anyway just looks good to me

stickyfiddle

Gibson has *always* had shaky QC, even in the 50's. But, apart from a shaky period in the 70's, has pretty much always made great guitars despite the QC thing. Frankly there are still plenty of Gibsons from the mid-70's that are very well regarded - LP Customs and Explorers for a start.

The reality is that probably 90% of modern Gibsons have some minor cosmetic issues like faint tool marks on fretboards, untidy finish around tight edges, f-holes with inconsistent black finishing. They're not a big deal to those of us who love them, but many find those to be dealbreakers. Beyond that, they also have major issues with some guitars. I don't know what proportion it is (certainly less than 10%, probably less than 5%, but also certainly more than you'd see from the likes of PRS or Ibanez or Yamaha). But you don't have to buy those guitars. 

In terms of specific guitars, there are tonnes of options. Since you're talking about CS and old ones I assume you want something that looks like a late-50's Les Paul (binding, trapezoid inlays, 2x humbuckers, maple top, mahogany back and rosewood fretboard). You know what that sounds like.

Customs are a similar theme, but with an ebony fretboard, different binding, gold hardware and sometimes without the maple cap, depending on the model. From 2012 onwards they also changed the ebony for Richlite (a man-made composite that looks and feels a bit like ebony), though the CS reissue versions of the Custom still use ebony. They all sound similar to normal LP Standards, with a hint more "snap" to their attack. The main difference for a player is the smoother feel of the ebony compared with. Also they're often heavier than the CS 50's reissues.

Realistically you simply won't get anything old and good for anything close to £3,000. 50's stuff is many multiples of 3k and even 70's guitars are often north of 5k. For that money, I'd be looking custom shop, and probably used. If you want something bit played in then anything post-1990 should keep you happy. 

If you're buying new, then buy from a good dealer - Peach and Coda seem to be the favourites among most of us here, and they'll see you right if you have any trouble. You're in Europe, which makes shipping easy - anything from outside the EU will come under CITES restrictions making shipping a ball-ache for anything with rosewood in it. 

Best thing to do is lots of reading, lots of questions, and start thinking about what sort of specs you like - thin or fat neck? sunburst, goldtop, or something else? Standard or Custom? 

crunchman

I've seen Gibsons with various issues.  Most of them aren't fundamental, but the two that you need to be aware of on a Les Paul are neck angle and bridge position.

I had a Custom Shop one that was a great guitar in a lot of ways, but I did have both of those problems with it.  I struggled to get it to intonate correctly, because the bridge wasn't quite in the right place.  At one point I put a Nashville bridge on it because of the greater range of travel for the saddles - didn't sound as good as the ABR though.  One of the guys who used to work in the repairs department at Chandlers told me that, if it was his guitar, he would fill the bridge post holes and redrill new ones about 3mm away.

The other problem with that guitar was that the neck angle was a bit steep.  The bridge sat very high on the posts.  When I rested my hand on the bridge for palm muting, over time the bridge would move slightly.  If I lowered the action right down, then it was ok, and the neck and the fretwork was good enough to get away with a really low action.  I would have preferred the action slightly higher than where I ended up though.

I've owned Gibsons with cosmetic issues, and I've owned one that came from the factory with wires not soldered to a volume pot (they were just wrapped around the tags), but those kind of issues aren't such a big deal.  Neck angle and bridge position are very difficult to sort out, so have a close look at the height of the bridge on the posts before you buy, and check that it intonates correctly within the range of travel of the saddles.

Bill_S

Really helpful quick replies guys, much appreciated. I have bought from Coda before, and they were really good to deal with. Buying from a trusted dealer who will sort out any problems sounds like the best option for me, especially as I am as far removed form being a guitar tech as is humanly possible. It also makes sense to go and try a bunch of guitars in one location, and Coda seem to have plenty available. Anyway, I'll keep watching this thread with interest! 

fftc

Does it need to be a Gibson?

I know for some people it does, and that's fine if you want that logo on that headstock. If however you are less bothered about the brand and just want a les paul style guitar with humbuckers then for £3K there are a lot of other options.

stickyfiddle

FWIW I've just ordered a used CS '57 reissue LP Custom all the way from Utah to me in Abu Dhabi. Will let you know if that ends up being a good decision or not!

designerseye88

You may be set on a Gibson but I would advise to check other LP style offerings. For 3k you could get an early 80's Greco which is hand made, hand carved with the same materials as an original 50's Gibson and probably come away with change. 
I know the lure of the Gibson brand is strong (I own a few myself) but if you are more about getting the right sound that will also potentially be a good investment I would definitely research them. 
Modern Gibsons are good but IMO are not made with any of the quality or skill they once were. For less money you could get something better if you're open to looking past the logo. 

webrthomson

crunchman said:

The other problem with that guitar was that the neck angle was a bit steep.  The bridge sat very high on the posts.  When I rested my hand on the bridge for palm muting, over time the bridge would move slightly.  If I lowered the action right down, then it was ok, and the neck and the fretwork was good enough to get away with a really low action.

^ That is a good point - I tend to like the tunomatic fairly low and the neck angle shallow - Ilike that better, worth trying some out and finding what you like.

Coda are great you'll get a good selection to chose from too

fftc said:

Does it need to be a Gibson?

^ Thats also a great question - I dont have any modern Gibsons anymore (I've got a 77 custom and a 77 standard) as my Feline and Ryder LP's saw off all the modern production Gibsons I've played.

Simon_M

fftc said:

Does it need to be a Gibson?

I know for some people it does, and that's fine if you want that logo on that headstock. If however you are less bothered about the brand and just want a les paul style guitar with humbuckers then for £3K there are a lot of other options.

I think this is a really good point. A big part of the price of a Gibson is the name. Don’t get me wrong, I like having Gibson on my headstock but I’m also aware that I could get a better built guitar for similar money if I didn’t get a Gibson.

merlin

Try this, I have read the thread but still, if there's a chance then there's a chance! It's a bloody corker...

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/147429/gibson-les-paul-2017-r8-vos-dirty-lemon#latest

pmbomb

if I was up for dropping three big ones on a Les Paul I'd at least speak to Feline or similar re a custom build before making a decision. (I speak as a happy Gibson owner, all be it at a much lower price point).

uncledick

Quite happy to recommend Coda as a dealer but your budget is going to cut out most of their LP options.  The last time I was there I tried loads of R8s and R9s but the Tom Murphy R9 at just over £6k jumped out as being by far the best of the Gibson options. It sold the next day which probably saved a lot of pre-Christmas credit card stress but sticks in my mind as being the only Les Paul I've actually wanted to own in 50 years of playing. @guitars4you also has some nice stock and will give you plenty of good advice on the 'particular' guitar - rather than the generic description which most dealers use.

Fifty9

Is @bgmartinsbridge’s r9 still available? That’d be what I’d buy in your situation. Give it a play first if poss.

RMJ

I'd look out for one of the 2017 R8s. Phenomenal machines

Gerz6558

I don't think you can go much wrong with a late eighties/early nineties les paul if you want that vintage/worn in feel for reasonable price. Most will be well worn in giving you that vibe, and they can be had for relatively sensible prices compared to the decades before. A great era in my opinion, where they were really focusing on regaining their quality.

Having said all of that, I recently bought a 2018 classic goldtop and don't feel it is inferior to the 89 custom it replaces (got rid of that because of the weight). It did take two replacements to get the right one though, but I don't regret it. If you did get a new one and it wasn't upto standard, you can deal directly with Gibson Europe if you wish rather than the shop. They paid courier to pick mine up and provided me with a replacement etc. Can't really fault them for that.

adampeter

You may get lucky but for me was a long journey, owned and played loads at all price points, got myself an 2017 R8s in the recent sales, best I've ever played,  

John_A

RMJ said:

I'd look out for one of the 2017 R8s. Phenomenal machines

What happened on 1/1/2018?  Did all the staff get replaced?

you can’t generalise like that there are good and not so good examples from all years

blueskunk

Get Feline to make you one

RMJ

John_A said:

RMJ said:

I'd look out for one of the 2017 R8s. Phenomenal machines

What happened on 1/1/2018?  Did all the staff get replaced?

you can’t generalise like that there are good and not so good examples from all years

I can and I did.

Great spec for decent money with lots of positive testimony. 

Logie

I've had around a dozen Les Pauls and my '89 CMT was the pick of the bunch closely followed by my two 95 Standards and my two 2003 Standards. I've had four post '04 Les Paul's and they were OK but there was just something they lacked. Just my personal opinion but I've had enough of them to get a feel for them. If it was my money I would be looking for a Standard from 2002-2004 and you can pick those up for around £1200 which would save a wad on an R8!