Squier JV strange switch issue

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MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
Hello guys.

I have JV '57 Strat. Built date is 01/07/83.
I need someone to explain to me this:

First of all, keep in mind, this is 100% original so everything as it came from the factory 36 years ago.

The 5-way switch is odd, but I know some JV's came with it. 

It works in the reversed way - if I need neck pickup I have to push it down (originally bridge pickup way). Same with bridge pickup etc.

Even stranger with middle pickup. At first, I thought it's not working at all but recently noticed that it has very very low output. I need to turn the volume all the way on my 60w amp to hear a bit of sound.

Is it something wrong with original wiring or just faulty switch? 


http://https//photos.app.goo.gl/3CJXmLNUZa6kCjcU6

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 38376
    edited January 12
    It's not the original switch, and it's junk. And wired wrong.

    Replace it with a CRL 5-way - or if you can find one, an original Japanese-made DM-50, although they're not as good quality - and it will be fine.

    It's also possible that the middle pickup is dead, but I would suspect the switch first.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    ICBM said:
    It's not the original switch, and it's junk. And wired wrong.

    Replace it with a CRL 5-way - or if you can find one, an original Japanese-made DM-50, although they're not as good quality - and it will be fine.

    It's also possible that the middle pickup is dead, but I would suspect the switch first.
    Gonna need to change the switch for sure.

    Regarding my research, this is an originally installed switch. at some period Japanese there short on DM-50 so they started to use this crap. I saw a couple of JV's with it. 

    But if it's wired wrong might be not original. I don't know... person I was buying it is the first owner and I know him well, he wouldn't lie to me  :#
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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 1306
    I have a JV Stratocaster and they came with 3 way switches. No JVs from that era came with 5 way switches as far as I understand.
    I am fully sated now with amps and guitars. God help me.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9764
    gringopig said:
    I have a JV Stratocaster and they came with 3 way switches. No JVs from that era came with 5 way switches as far as I understand.
    I bought my JV 57 Strat in autumn 1986. I think it might have been a 1985 build, ex-demo stock and they'd knocked it down to shift it. It has a 5-way switch.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 38376
    Mankonis said:

    But if it's wired wrong might be not original. I don't know... person I was buying it is the first owner and I know him well, he wouldn't lie to me  :#
    But he may have a poor memory. If he's had it from new he can't be much less than 50...

    That applies to me too, but I'm certain no early Squier ever came stock with this switch, it's a later design.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
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  • 100% try a new switch . I would use a CRL myself
    Test the middle pickup then and see if any out put or even test it's DC resistance before wiring back in . 
    Sometimes a dead pickup position will sound  at high volume but it is usually just a little bleed through from one of the other pickups.

    Many guitars have a re-sale value. Some you'll never want to sell.
    Stockist of Earvana nuts, BKP, Oil City And Monty's pickups. Sperzel, Tonepros, Gotoh and Graphtech too!
    Expert guitar repairs and upgrades - fretwork our speciality! www.felineguitars.com.  Facebook too!

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  • gringopiggringopig Frets: 1306
    gringopig said:
    I have a JV Stratocaster and they came with 3 way switches. No JVs from that era came with 5 way switches as far as I understand.
    I bought my JV 57 Strat in autumn 1986. I think it might have been a 1985 build, ex-demo stock and they'd knocked it down to shift it. It has a 5-way switch.
    The last JV's were '84 I believe

    http://www.guitarsjapan.com/fenderchart.html
    I am fully sated now with amps and guitars. God help me.
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 4559
    gringopig said:
    I have a JV Stratocaster and they came with 3 way switches. No JVs from that era came with 5 way switches as far as I understand.
    One of my school/college contemporaries owned a 1983/84 model '57 style JV Squier Stratocaster. (Large Squier logo above small Fender logo.) Three-way Japanese selector switch. 

    My own JV Squier Stratocaster had been repeatedly brutalised before I acquired it. None of the original electronic parts was present. 


    ICBM said:
    if you can find one, an original Japanese-made DM-50, although they're not as good quality
    I have a new old stock DM-50 stashed away somewhere in a re-sealable bag. Never seen solder.

    I concur with ICBM that the DM-50 is inferior to a sprung CRL switch. 

    Mankonis said:
    middle pickup ... has very very low output. I need to turn the volume all the way on my 60w amp to hear a bit of sound. Is it something wrong with original wiring or just faulty switch? 
    It would only take a weak connection to ground to render a functioning pickup almost silent.

    Another possibility is physical damage within the selector switch. If the PCB half of the switch deviates from its intended position, contact with wipers is reduced. 




    Be seeing you.
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  • rossirossi Frets: 649
    My early one had a 3 way from new .See www.21frets.com
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    Okay, so this switch is not original? What about the other parts? Rest looks original for me. 

    I will change to CRL switch and then let's see what happens.  =)
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    But as I said before, there's still possible that this is an original switch. It was added just because of the shortage of the parts during the time. Just a couple of minutes before one guy from the USA said that his JV had the same switch.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 38376
    Mankonis said:
    But as I said before, there's still possible that this is an original switch. It was added just because of the shortage of the parts during the time. Just a couple of minutes before one guy from the USA said that his JV had the same switch.
    I really don't think so. It's just not that old a switch type.

    The rest of it looks original.

    Parts get replaced, and should be, when they fail - in the past, no-one cared about "originality", especially not on what was a cheap modern guitar.

    I also remember the JVs coming with 3-way switches, and it's very likely that a lot of people changed them simply to get the in-between sounds more easily. This was the era when it wasn't considered sacrelige to modify 60s Fenders, let alone Japanese ones.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    ICBM said:
    Mankonis said:
    But as I said before, there's still possible that this is an original switch. It was added just because of the shortage of the parts during the time. Just a couple of minutes before one guy from the USA said that his JV had the same switch.
    I really don't think so. It's just not that old a switch type.

    The rest of it looks original.

    Parts get replaced, and should be, when they fail - in the past, no-one cared about "originality", especially not on what was a cheap modern guitar.

    I also remember the JVs coming with 3-way switches, and it's very likely that a lot of people changed them simply to get the in-between sounds more easily. This was the era when it wasn't considered sacrelige to modify 60s Fenders, let alone Japanese ones.
    Here is an interesting link to the discussion
    http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/squier-57-jv-strat-domestic-or-export.437536/page-2
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 4559
    The Strat Talk thread is most informative.

    For instance, the photographs in posts 22 and 23 illustrate how a VLX53 selector switch should be wired. This is because the order in which its terminals are labelled is not the same as a YM-50 or the typical SE Asian eight-contacts-in-a-line switch available today.

    I suggest that somebody connected up the VLX53 selector switch whilst following a schematic diagram for a YM-50 or an American switch.

    The reversal error can be corrected by swapping the hot conductors from the neck and bridge position pickups. The wire connecting the lower tone pot to the selector switch also needs to be shifted to the unused terminal on the second pole.



    On a slight tangent, I cannot help noticing that the pickup output cables on the Strat Talk thread Stratocaster are plastic insulated whereas the OP's guitar appears to have pseudo push-back "cotton effect" insulation. (JV series Squier '52 Telecasters had something similar.)


    Be seeing you.
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    The Strat Talk thread is most informative.

    For instance, the photographs in posts 22 and 23 illustrate how a VLX53 selector switch should be wired. This is because the order in which its terminals are labelled is not the same as a YM-50 or the typical SE Asian eight-contacts-in-a-line switch available today.

    I suggest that somebody connected up the VLX53 selector switch whilst following a schematic diagram for a YM-50 or an American switch.

    The reversal error can be corrected by swapping the hot conductors from the neck and bridge position pickups. The wire connecting the lower tone pot to the selector switch also needs to be shifted to the unused terminal on the second pole.



    On a slight tangent, I cannot help noticing that the pickup output cables on the Strat Talk thread Stratocaster are plastic insulated whereas the OP's guitar appears to have pseudo push-back "cotton effect" insulation. (JV series Squier '52 Telecasters had something similar.)


    Thank you very much.

    You have amazing knowledge and helped me a lot to understand what's going on here.  
    It's all clear now. 

    So you think this is the reason why my middle pickup barely working?

    Cheers
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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 4559
    Mankonis said:
    You have amazing knowledge
    Not really. I'm just soooooooooo old that I was there when the ("non-domestic") Squier JV guitars and basses first arrived in the UK.

    Mankonis said:
    you think this is the reason why my middle pickup barely working?
    I can offer no definitive answer to that question without being in the same room as your guitar. There are several possible explanations for the lack of signal. They all need checking out.

    Begin with FelineGuitars' suggestion to take D.C. resistance meter readings from your middle pickup. A reading anywhere between 5 and 7 kOhms would indicate that the pickup is healthy and, hence, the signal is going A.W.O.L. elsewhere in the circuit. 

    My own preference for lever selector switches is the sprung CRL type. If you want smart Alec wiring, a twenty-four contact Superswitch is the way to go.


    Be seeing you.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 38376
    Mankonis said:

    Here is an interesting link to the discussion
    Hmmmm... not sure. Until this I’ve never seen any evidence of those switches in any guitar made earlier than 1986, but if there’s more than one with the same type it may be possible. Soldering is not definite evidence, many techs can do it well enough that you wouldn’t be able to tell.

    The switch in your guitar is wired wrongly, so at the very least it has been tampered with - if the owner doesn’t remember that I would have to call into question whether he would remember it being replaced too.

    Replacing 3-way switches with 5-ways was *extremely* common in the 1980s, not least because that Strat in-between sound was probably the most popular single guitar sound. A JV Squier was simply a cheap modern guitar of no collector interest or value - I modded quite a few without a second thought as to whether anyone would care thirty years later.
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    ICBM said:
    Mankonis said:

    Here is an interesting link to the discussion
    Hmmmm... not sure. Until this I’ve never seen any evidence of those switches in any guitar made earlier than 1986, but if there’s more than one with the same type it may be possible. Soldering is not definite evidence, many techs can do it well enough that you wouldn’t be able to tell.

    The switch in your guitar is wired wrongly, so at the very least it has been tampered with - if the owner doesn’t remember that I would have to call into question whether he would remember it being replaced too.

    Replacing 3-way switches with 5-ways was *extremely* common in the 1980s, not least because that Strat in-between sound was probably the most popular single guitar sound. A JV Squier was simply a cheap modern guitar of no collector interest or value - I modded quite a few without a second thought as to whether anyone would care thirty years later.
    Probably you are right. It's hard to remember what happened more than 30 years ago.
    He said, he played it for a couple of years with his punk band, then bought a better guitar.
     Since then this guitar was sitting in the cheap(ish) original hard case somewhere in the attic.


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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    Btw, I couldn't convince him that this guitar is worth something now. For him, it's just not a good guitar. He gave it to me for ridiculously small amount of money.  :)
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 38376
    My experience in the shop is that they actually don’t sell for quite as much as the hype might suggest, but any price under £500 is still a bargain.

    I honestly think that they’re a bit overpriced usually - they’re good, but no better than a more recent MIJ Fender and not quite as good as a Mexican Classic Series, both of which have Fender on the headstock and can be bought for less. They gained their reputation largely when Fender USA weren’t making anything as good.

    But if you paid less than that it’s a very nice guitar and a quirky piece of history for those of us old enough to remember them when they were new!
    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    Absolutely agree with you. In my opinion, 500£ is the real price for all original JV. I bought it well below that price  ;)
    The first issue with the fender logo is a different thing, they are quite rare so I understand the price.

    The problem is, as a new player I haven't had a chance to hold(Play). real American strat in my hands. Would interesting to compare it.  I have Player Series Mexican Strat. I bought it just before I acquired JV. Since then I never touched it, but probably is just me being influenced by all that content praising JV guitars.

    I have cheap MIJ Squier built in early '90. Despite electronics and hardware built quality is better than my Mexican Strat. No gaps at the neck pocket, nicely done frets.
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  • rossirossi Frets: 649
    I thought the Classic Vibe series were a decent sub for a JV having owned both .Fender did reply in their forum  to my post and said that was the intention .I prefer the classic vibes as they have a 9.5 board anyway .The jV's are good no doubt but not supercalafragilistically good.I would love mine back as I was a reluctant seller way back when but mainly to own rather than play it much  .A mortgage got in the way .I still have the green box it came in .
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  • MankonisMankonis Frets: 2
    rossi said:
    I thought the Classic Vibe series were a decent sub for a JV having owned both .Fender did reply in their forum  to my post and said that was the intention .I prefer the classic vibes as they have a 9.5 board anyway .The jV's are good no doubt but not supercalafragilistically good.I would love mine back as I was a reluctant seller way back when but mainly to own rather than play it much  .A mortgage got in the way .I still have the green box it came in .
    Great point of view.  If I had to choose CV or JV, I would definitely go for CV, because as you said they are quite similar in some terms and the price is muuuuuch better. Well, I prefer 7.25 radius, but it's easy to switch to 9.5.

    Interesting, I never saw the box. Do you have some pictures of it?  

    Cheers
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