Pickup Types

andyp

Hey folks.

I have been mulling over pickups lately and just pondering if I fancy trying some different ones in my SG. I kind of understand vintage vs hot style pickups but mostly I've not got a clue about the various humbucker styles that are out there.

Where do my standard 490R/490T set sit in the scheme of things? Am I right in saying these are vintage hot style, rather than PAF inspired? I'm just wondering what sorts to compare to and what might be the logical direction to go in for AC/DC, Led Zep, Free and some modern stuff... I really like the stock pickups but it's always intrigued me what I might find if I was to swap them for something else. I was particularly interested when I saw the Chicago Music Exchange T Type SGs that they just announced as T Type wasn't a term I'd heard before.

I appreciate this is probably a very basic question, but can someone maybe give me a wee idiot's guide to types of humbucker pickups? Or point me to a good site to do some reading?

Thanks.

Andy

ESBlonde

In the Mid/late 60s Gibson bobbins had a letter or icon 'T' embossed in the plastic, so they are sometimes classified as that for that era. So PAFs, Patent Number, T tops, Shaws (after Tim Shaw the designer) and then onto the Dirty Fingers, 490s, 500s, Classic 57s, Burstbuckers etc.

Don't get confused with the term T type when refering to the Telecaster type pickup.

There is a website full of very knowledgeable Gibson afficiados called lespaulforum.com where the intricate detail of each type can be found and analysed. This being a typical post of detail:

https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?204252-Original-T-Tops&highlight=T+tops

andyp

Awesome! Thanks. I did wonder where 57s and Burstbuckers etc. all sat in this picture too.

Cheers.

Andy

Hydra19

In humbucker terms you had the vintage PAF's, but they were not all the same, but in the same ballpark. T-tops came in the later 60's and are hotter than PAF's. In the 70's you started having DiMarzio Super Distortion, with ceramic magnets for hard rock and then the JB was also created for harder rock, or at least that's where it excels. Pickups generally got hotter and tighter from there on. 57's, burstbuckers, etc are all pretty much variations of the PAF pickup, but meant to be vintage style, but maybe a bit hotter. I'd say 490R/490T is a middle ground between PAF style and more modern metal pickups. I have heard of them mentioned a lot more in hard rock guitars, and they were probably stock in the mid to late 70's. I think the Sex Pistols Les Paul custom had t-tops, and some early Metallica guitars had 490R/490T so that's where they stand

p90fool

Your 490s are not dissimilar to 57 Classics. 

They're not a bad pickup at all, and they're in PAF territory in terms of tone and power, if not 100% authentic in terms of construction or cosmetics.

If you want to play AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Free, your current pickups are certainly not standing in your way.

In your position I'd have a lot more fun playing with vintage style boosts and fuzzes to get those tones than the infinitesimal differences between PAF clones. 

andyp

Guys, this is really useful - thanks! I really nails what I was trying to understand and with such a raft of even just Gibson pickups out there I've always found it pretty confusing.

What you've written @Hydra19 is pretty much how I had it in my head but I was never quite sure and defintely not sure where the 490s sat in this picture. As it turns out, they sound like exactly what I need - classic rock and some older Metallica with some newer (Foo Fighters etc.) stuff thrown in.

I've seen a lot of negative comments on the 490s but I've really liked them since we changed the stock pot's and wiring (my old man did the soldering for me) a couple of years ago. That actually made a massive difference to the sound (to my ears at least). I've always just wondered if it was worth trying something else, but the fact I can't try any in my guitar and my amp etc. without buying them and fully installing them is a massive deterrent.

I do wonder why they switch between 57s and 490s from one year to the next though, and I definitely don't want to go anywhere near trying to find out which PAF style pickup I prefer. No way. I'm a very basic level "player" and really just like learning stuff.

I think I'll stick with them but glad I asked the question.

Andy

Henrytwang

I might be in a minority but I’m I’ve always been quite happy with the stock pickups in most of my Gibson guitars. There are a few exceptions however, the P100s in my ES135, the P90 slug magnet pickups in my 2015 LP Special and the single coil pickups in Melody Makers. I know that it’s fashionable to criticise Gibson at the moment but I think that their Humbuckers and P90s are great pickups, fitting aftermarket pickups to a Gibson will only reduce it’s secondhand value. Swapping out pickups on something like an Epiphone is another matter altogether, it’ll probably improve the sound quality no end, although it would maybe wise to keep originals and refit them if you ever sell the guitar. I’ve got a couple of Korean Epiphone SGs, one mahogany and the other Korina to which I’ve fitted Seymour Duncan JB/ Jazz Humbuckers and they’ve gone from sounding bland to amazing. I’ve also put an Oil City P90 in one of my Epiphone ‘57 LP Juniors with great results.

hyperben

Hydra19 said:

In humbucker terms you had the vintage PAF's, but they were not all the same, but in the same ballpark. T-tops came in the later 60's and are hotter than PAF's. In the 70's you started having DiMarzio Super Distortion, with ceramic magnets for hard rock and then the JB was also created for harder rock, or at least that's where it excels. Pickups generally got hotter and tighter from there on. 57's, burstbuckers, etc are all pretty much variations of the PAF pickup, but meant to be vintage style, but maybe a bit hotter. I'd say 490R/490T is a middle ground between PAF style and more modern metal pickups. I have heard of them mentioned a lot more in hard rock guitars, and they were probably stock in the mid to late 70's. I think the Sex Pistols Les Paul custom had t-tops, and some early Metallica guitars had 490R/490T so that's where they stand

T Tops are not hotter than PAFs. T Tops tend to be much more consistent at around 7.5k and are bright and tight sounding (think AC DC, late Led Zep bridge p/u tones). PAFs are inconsistent and vary massively from low 7k to high 9k. Their tone tends to be looser and less tight sounding than T Tops (think Peter Green Paul Kossoff).

andyp

I agree on the Epiphone thing @Henrytwang I sold my Epiphone LP to my Dad and he stuck a 490/498 pair in it that I bought on his behalf on here. That made a huge difference to that guitar. He then sold it on to a guy in a local Punk band who absolutely loved it.

Mike58

Bottom line and shocking news for the beardy, real ale loving, cork sniffers playing first position blues scales at home with Class A valve amps.... Gibson make VERY good pickups.
Sometimes the pot and cap values need to be tweaked to fine tune things but there is very little wrong with either 490s or Classic 57s.  99% of great humbucker rock tones can be achieved with the standard issue stuff.
no offence to anyone matching the initial description

Hydra19

Yes, and plenty of great tracks have been recorded with 490R/490T and 57's, there is nothing they're missing. I have found myself to be more off a Seymour Duncan fan, it just happened that most of my guitars have SD's. I did get a guitar with EMG pickups which I had planned never to try and they sound pretty good too. I think the amp is more important to overall tone, there will only be subtle differences between pickups

Philly_Q

p90fool said:

Your 490s are not dissimilar to 57 Classics. 

True, I think the Gibson website even used to say they were basically "modern" versions of the classic PAF style pickups (or, in effect, 57 Classics).  Alnico II magnets.

In all the talk about T-Tops, it might be worth mentioning that the "T" in 490T means it's for the Treble position and has wider polepiece spacing.

If you had the 490R/498T set rather than the 490R/490T set, the 498T is a higher-output pickup, about 14k I think, with an Alnico V magnet.

Alegree

The only people who think there's subtle differences between pickups are the people who haven't played anything other than PAF clones.

There's a huge variety of tones in different humbuckers. 

Danielsguitars

filtertrons would be different and interesting to try

andyp

Philly_Q said:

p90fool said:

Your 490s are not dissimilar to 57 Classics. 

In all the talk about T-Tops, it might be worth mentioning that the "T" in 490T means it's for the Treble position and has wider polepiece spacing.

Yeah, good point. The R and T bit is about the only part of this that I did understand. But that’s exactly why I then didn’t understand what a T Top / T Type is.

hyperben

Everyone has different experiences when swapping pickups. Amp and guitar are 90% or more of the equation though in my experience. Pickups can vary wildly but only trial and error works since even if others have tried different pickups nobody else has your guitar, amp, playing style and tonal preferences. The 490s and 57s are top quality pickups - their voicing is thicker in the mids than other types such as the custom bucker as they have balanced coils (same number of windings on each coil). Custom buckers are excellent pickups, possibly the best Gibson has made. They’re brighter and more rich in harmonics than the former 2.

p90fool

Alegree said:

The only people who think there's subtle differences between pickups are the people who haven't played anything other than PAF clones.

There's a huge variety of tones in different humbuckers. 

I swap pickups all the time and am well aware of the differences, but there's nothing wrong with the OP's pickups for playing the music he specified.

Alegree

p90fool said:

Alegree said:

The only people who think there's subtle differences between pickups are the people who haven't played anything other than PAF clones.

There's a huge variety of tones in different humbuckers. 

I swap pickups all the time and am well aware of the differences, but there's nothing wrong with the OP's pickups for playing the music he specified.

I agree.

normula1

The Burstbuckers 1&2 in my 60's tribute SG are great especially the 2 in the bridge. Also try swapping the neck pickup round so the screw coil points to the bridge. I found it made way more difference that I expected.