Best year from Fender ?

crunchman

p90fool said:

It's a Fender, the best ones are the ones you bolt together out of all your favourite bits, with no compromises. 

If you make it, it's a partscaster, not a Fender. 

ICBM

thebreeze said:

I do think there's something to the '64 and '65 grey-bottomed pickups that the others don't have.

Grey bottoms?

maltingsaudio

p90fool said:

It's a Fender, the best ones are the ones you bolt together out of all your favourite bits, with no compromises. 

Then its a fake!!!! ( and run for cover whilst bestowing a wisdom) 

I reckon 1982 when they started making Squiers in the far east.Then i found out whilst researching this that Leo Bought his strings from VC Squier whilst developing his new fangled electric guitar and made them an official OEM manufacturer in 1963 befor being bought by Fender in 1965.

This is exactly why the internet was invented. What should have taken 2 minutes to add a witty comment has now taken 2 hours of research because I could. Mind you I wouldn't have done it,  if I'd had to go to a library or music shop to find this information out

thebreeze

ICBM said:

thebreeze said:

I do think there's something to the '64 and '65 grey-bottomed pickups that the others don't have.

Grey bottoms?

haha - quite right, that does sound a bit daft now I read it back!

thebreeze

.

coffeehouse

guitars4you said:

Today, if we are talking about 'vintage replicas', then the Custom Shop team do a remarkable job in producing such fine guitars - I'd say they have got better over the last 10/15 years

I agree ... the more recent stuff is a good notch up compared to their earlier offerings... I've played some very recent CS guitars that are insanely good ... 

guitars4you

coffeehouse said:

guitars4you said:

Today, if we are talking about 'vintage replicas', then the Custom Shop team do a remarkable job in producing such fine guitars - I'd say they have got better over the last 10/15 years

I agree ... the more recent stuff is a good notch up compared to their earlier offerings... I've played some very recent CS guitars that are insanely good ... 

Not read it yet but the latest issue of Guitarist has a vintage v C/Shop replica shoot out regarding tone - Bottom line is if C/Shop have not nailed it, then they are damn close - Taking a £10/15K price differential in to account, a host of potential issues regarding fake/originality etc, then I'm happy with a CS - IMO most certainly out perform an original regarding playability based on chunkier frets and a 9.5" radius to ensure a more user friendly slick action - Funnily enough some of the best playing old 'uns have been player grade models, whereby such mods can be made without any fear of devaluing an original

Caffeine_Vampire

Every year.

I have never owned a bad Fender at any price point. My brand loyalty was earned and deserved. 

Gassage

For me, slab board strats were the best preCBS but there's few bad ones.

The best Fender I've ever played (and owned) is my 1973 poly finished 3 bolt neck Thinline as anyone on this forum that's played it will agree.

chris78

thebreeze said:

I do think there's something to the '64 and '65 grey-bottomed pickups that the others don't have.

Same as. The only trouble is some of the necks can be very skinny. 
For me, anything from 63-67 is Fender’s best years. The best strat I’ve ever played was a 65 and the best tele a 63 that was so worn, if Fender had said it was a heavy relic, everyone would have bitched about it being unrealistic 

chris78

guitars4you said:

coffeehouse said:

guitars4you said:

Today, if we are talking about 'vintage replicas', then the Custom Shop team do a remarkable job in producing such fine guitars - I'd say they have got better over the last 10/15 years

I agree ... the more recent stuff is a good notch up compared to their earlier offerings... I've played some very recent CS guitars that are insanely good ... 

Not read it yet but the latest issue of Guitarist has a vintage v C/Shop replica shoot out regarding tone - Bottom line is if C/Shop have not nailed it, then they are damn close - Taking a £10/15K price differential in to account, a host of potential issues regarding fake/originality etc, then I'm happy with a CS - IMO most certainly out perform an original regarding playability based on chunkier frets and a 9.5" radius to ensure a more user friendly slick action - Funnily enough some of the best playing old 'uns have been player grade models, whereby such mods can be made without any fear of devaluing an original

I’m just about starting to watch that. As a man who’s been around guitars for a while, how close do you think the custom shop come to a good pre cbs? We know there were some very average old guitars, but I’m talking specifically the good ones

coffeehouse

@guitars4you  Yea, I think Fender have been very clever with their Relics over the last few years. They have essentially made them a very viable alternative to buying a real pre CBS guitar with a host of added benefits. Price, little stress regards originality, more stable values, and you can access factory original guitars with any non vintage correct mods you need (humbuckers, larger frets, flatter boards.. etc etc).

Even things like the tiny details were a good move, pat pend saddles, correct patent numbers, etc etc... stuff the earlier CS models didn't bother to get right... There's less and less reasons to 'want' a pre CBS now... personally I'd rather have a handful of CS Relics than one pre CBS...

JD50

coffeehouse said:

@guitars4you  Yea, I think Fender have been very clever with their Relics over the last few years. They have essentially made them a very viable alternative to buying a real pre CBS guitar with a host of added benefits. Price, little stress regards originality, more stable values, and you can access factory original guitars with any non vintage correct mods you need (humbuckers, larger frets, flatter boards.. etc etc).

Even things like the tiny details were a good move, pat pend saddles, correct patent numbers, etc etc... stuff the earlier CS models didn't bother to get right... There's less and less reasons to 'want' a pre CBS now... personally I'd rather have a handful of CS Relics than one pre CBS...

I got lucky a couple years ago and bought a pre CBS for less than a new AVRI.

The USA Standard & AVRI stuff is great value 2nd hand.

Strat54

coffeehouse said:

@guitars4you  Yea, I think Fender have been very clever with their Relics over the last few years. They have essentially made them a very viable alternative to buying a real pre CBS guitar with a host of added benefits. Price, little stress regards originality, more stable values, and you can access factory original guitars with any non vintage correct mods you need (humbuckers, larger frets, flatter boards.. etc etc).

Even things like the tiny details were a good move, pat pend saddles, correct patent numbers, etc etc... stuff the earlier CS models didn't bother to get right... There's less and less reasons to 'want' a pre CBS now... personally I'd rather have a handful of CS Relics than one pre CBS...

I disagree, there's still a lot of reasons to want vintage and they are selling incredibly well right now. Don't get me wrong Custom Shop guitars are a great alternative and give a more modern feel but we all know the difference. Both you and Mark sell Custom Shop instruments, I wouldn't expect you to be dismissive of them and I own a fair few myself but I also own a couple of Pre-CBS too and the tones are like night and day between. We've  gone down this road before, there's good and bad of all era's and being vintage guarantees you nothing but conversely the same can be said for Custom Shop.
This video for me demonstrates the glaringly obvious difference between new and old. No one can deny that.7

Nice selection of guitars Mr Coffehouse. btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0VAo_FfH0

p90fool

crunchman said:

p90fool said:

It's a Fender, the best ones are the ones you bolt together out of all your favourite bits, with no compromises. 

If you make it, it's a partscaster, not a Fender. 

Mine is all Fender parts, including receipts, making it more Fender than one you buy brand new and put aftermarket pickups in. 

I get your point though, I couldn't sell it as a Fender from its serial number year, because most of it obviously isn't. 

It's still a better Strat than my mostly original '63 though

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

coffeehouse said:

@guitars4you  Yea, I think Fender have been very clever with their Relics over the last few years. They have essentially made them a very viable alternative to buying a real pre CBS guitar with a host of added benefits. Price, little stress regards originality, more stable values, and you can access factory original guitars with any non vintage correct mods you need (humbuckers, larger frets, flatter boards.. etc etc).

Even things like the tiny details were a good move, pat pend saddles, correct patent numbers, etc etc... stuff the earlier CS models didn't bother to get right... There's less and less reasons to 'want' a pre CBS now... personally I'd rather have a handful of CS Relics than one pre CBS...

I disagree, there's still a lot of reasons to want vintage and they are selling incredibly well right now. Don't get me wrong Custom Shop guitars are a great alternative and give a more modern feel but we all know the difference. Both you and Mark sell Custom Shop instruments, I wouldn't expect you to be dismissive of them and I own a fair few myself but I also own a couple of Pre-CBS too and the tones are like night and day between. We've  gone down this road before, there's good and bad of all era's and being vintage guarantees you nothing but conversely the same can be said for Custom Shop.
This video for me demonstrates the glaringly obvious difference between new and old. No one can deny that.7

Nice selection of guitars Mr Coffehouse. btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0VAo_FfH0

A couple of years ago I had a vintage 62 refin in the shop - At the time it owed me a touch under 4K - In short it was not a great guitar - The neck pick-up though did sound wonderful and instantly pleasing to the ear - But the other 2 pick-ups were just nothing special - It was not a good player - As such I had a thought to keep it in the shop as a 'test bed' so players can A v B it against various Custom Shop models - Obviously to self promote CS

In the end I had a sensible offer so I sold it - Part of me thought it was unfair to put a vintage dog along side a C/Shop as it was a badly distorted example/comparison , but I did see some irony in this

As we know there are some good vintage models and there are bad examples - Both command rising prices - After all no one lists a vintage 62 Strat as 'all original but plays like a dog hence it is offered for sale at a cheaper price'

I'm not trying to defend my corner here as a CS dealer, more my position as a fellow guitar player - I admit that a good example would still be of interest to me - But would I now wish to pay 8-12K, maybe more, for a vintage model that might not be what it is sold as - In short unless it played well then I would not entertain the idea, but I do have an open eye just in case one day I see the one

In some ways the dodgy vintage market, the high prices, limited supply and 'vintage playing performance' all help to drive business towards CS

But I do agree a good example is still a nice asset, but only a dream to many 

Have you seen the latest issue of Guitarist were Nev and others A v B old v CS - Granted nothing new and nothing you don't know, but worth a read if you get 2 mins

ICBM

I personally would not spend more on a vintage guitar than on a new CS equivalent - and even those aren't cheap.

The vintage market has served its purpose now in my opinion - teaching Fender and Gibson what they'd forgotten about how to make their classic models properly again, and now that's happened there really isn't that much point in paying through the nose for something which at best can't be properly maintained for fear of 'harming its value', and at worst may have questionable authenticity.

Strat54

ICBM said:

I personally would not spend more on a vintage guitar than on a new CS equivalent - and even those aren't cheap.

The vintage market has served its purpose now in my opinion - teaching Fender and Gibson what they'd forgotten about how to make their classic models properly again, and now that's happened there really isn't that much point in paying through the nose for something which at best can't be properly maintained for fear of 'harming its value', and at worst may have questionable authenticity.

The market says not, its buoyuant. Its funny the first thing an 'artist' does these when they get a bit of money is buy a vintage guitar....even the young ones are at it Rabea lining Norm's already busting pockets for a 71 Les Paul Custom.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USgYvrF3u_w

coffeehouse

Strat54 said:

Nice selection of guitars Mr Coffehouse. btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um0VAo_FfH0

 Thank you @Strat54 Appreciate the comments, got many more to photograph and list... all will be online in the coming days. 

ICBM

Strat54 said:

The market says not, its buoyuant. Its funny the first thing an 'artist' does these when they get a bit of money is buy a vintage guitar....even the young ones are at it Rabea lining Norm's already busting pockets for a 71 Les Paul Custom.

I don't care in the slightest what the market says! If people have more money than sense that's their choice.

It's quite funny that a '71 Les Paul Custom is now considered 'vintage' too, if you think about it...