Buying a Used Car

RaymondLin

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

I must've have done 12k last year (some year less, average 10k) and I drive a 2.5L Turbo petrol and it does like 12mpg in town and 35mpg on motorway, average 30mpg over the 35k in the 3 years that i've had it.

Monday to Friday I do a 2 miles to work and then 2 miles back and in the weekend I do a 22miles each way journey twice and with the odd weekend I do like 180miles for weddings or airports.  It's a real mix of short, medium and long drives.   

I would still go petrol if most of your journeys in the week is short, if you get one that can do 40mpg then it'll be fine.  Just less to go wrong.

boogieman

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

In your case I’d go diesel. 10k miles PA is usually reckoned to be the point where a diesel is worth it. The key to making a diesel work at best efficiency is getting the engine fully up to proper working temperature:  10 miles is enough to do that and to stop the DPF getting sooted up, the longer weekly trips will also help. The fuel consumption should be better than a petrol on your longer runs. 

ICBM

Schnozz said:

Yeah - I was searching for something with a 1.5/1.6 engine and diesel seems to work nicely on the country roads where I am, but I can't see myself getting close to 20,000 miles.

I'm not adverse to any car brand really, although I'm not so keen on Renault and Citroen, unless their newer models have greatly improved.

EDIT: Not a brand snob (G&L, Lag and Bacchus etc), but I was looking at VW, Skoda and Ford.

Suzuki SX4, petrol 1.6, available with 4WD if you want it if you're worried about getting around in the snow. (But manually selectable, so you can drive it as a normal 2WD all the rest of the time.) Absolutely brilliant car for country road driving, handles superbly and has plenty of performance when you want it. MrsICBM has one and it's the best car we've ever owned. I even prefer it to my beloved Renault Grand Scenic really, even if you can't get three kids and all the holiday luggage in it at the same time...

Even more importantly, my trusted garage mechanic drives one, so I'm certain it's not got any reliability issues or he wouldn't - he's like I am with guitar amps .

midlifecrisis

up until 5 years ago always bought new/nearly new. then, even though i could of afforded to continue i bought a 15 year old skoda for £325   with 10 months MOT on it. ran it for nearly 2 years befor clutch and exhaust went so scrapped it. Since then ive always bought 10year+ cars with minimum 8 months MOT for +- £500.  they are all much more reliable than you would of thought. i know very little about cars so dont do exhaustive checks , but i always check it has a decent service history, buy form normal people in normal homes ie not some dodgy geezer who wants to meet you in a layby off the A30. sure its risky but my motoring costs have plummetted.. 

JerkMoans

Personally I can recommend nothing better than the 2005 Maserati 4200 Cambiocorsa.

And by a remarkable coincidence I know of one coming up for sale. One careful lady owner. Never thrashed.

FX_Munkee

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

15k miles is considered about the tipping point. For your situation the once a week journey should be fine to get the average mpg up and clear out the DPF if you go diesel.

One point to consider is that it's not just the fuel price difference between petrol and diesel. Modern diesels are complicated beasts, this quite often reflects itself in higher service costs compared to modern petrols.

sweepy

If you are intending to drive into larger Cities then avoid Diesel completely 

boogieman

FX_Munkee said:

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

15k miles is considered about the tipping point. For your situation the once a week journey should be fine to get the average mpg up and clear out the DPF if you go diesel.

One point to consider is that it's not just the fuel price difference between petrol and diesel. Modern diesels are complicated beasts, this quite often reflects itself in higher service costs compared to modern petrols.

Tbh I didn’t notice any difference in servicing costs when we ran a diesel. Of course if the DPF goes tits up that’s when the major expense will kick in. If they’re too far gone to be cleaned out you could be looking at £2k plus for a new one. 

blobb

Lots of people with diesels don't keep an eye on their thermostats. They fail open so the engine runs cool and doesn't cook itself and it may not throw a CEL to tell you it has gone. Some cars have hidden menu in the on board computer that shows coolant temp and you need to keep an eye on this.  Running a cold engine will eat MPG and lower exhaust temps. Once the soot has built up and clogged the DPF it won't regenerate because of the cold engine. Eventually backpressure causes issues and can trigger 'get home' mode, destroy the DPF or blow the exhaust.

I think this is major cause of the bad reputation of DPF equipped diesels. As Boogieman says, a 10 mile run every now and again will get you up to temp and keep the exhaust hot - so long as your stats are ok.

Cost of fuel is another thing altogether and I suspect diesel will go up soon, but then again the quality of fuel is not what it once was. The increased biocontent isn't good for injectors and stuff like that.

If you want some fun (and plenty of headaches) buy a well maintained BMW. I just just changed my e46 320ci (petrol) for an e91 330d (diesel). fuel costs 10% more /ltr but I get about 15% more mpg. But it does 0-60 in under 6 sec!

If you want reliability buy a Toyota

FX_Munkee

boogieman said:

FX_Munkee said:

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

15k miles is considered about the tipping point. For your situation the once a week journey should be fine to get the average mpg up and clear out the DPF if you go diesel.

One point to consider is that it's not just the fuel price difference between petrol and diesel. Modern diesels are complicated beasts, this quite often reflects itself in higher service costs compared to modern petrols.

Tbh I didn’t notice any difference in servicing costs when we ran a diesel. Of course if the DPF goes tits up that’s when the major expense will kick in. If they’re too far gone to be cleaned out you could be looking at £2k plus for a new one. 

See also: Dual Mass Flywheels, and EGR systems

blobb

Most auto's use torque converters so no DMF. I would say go auto for diesel, manual for petrol.

Egr - again keep an eye on temps.

As with all cars, get to know it and don't skimp on maintenance. My petrol was a bugger for coilpacks, injectors, scavenger valves etc...

But a diesel doesn't drive like a petrol and visa versa.

m_c

blobb said:

Lots of people with diesels don't keep an eye on their thermostats. They fail open so the engine runs cool and doesn't cook itself and it may not throw a CEL to tell you it has gone. Some cars have hidden menu in the on board computer that shows coolant temp and you need to keep an eye on this.  Running a cold engine will eat MPG and lower exhaust temps. Once the soot has built up and clogged the DPF it won't regenerate because of the cold engine. Eventually backpressure causes issues and can trigger 'get home' mode, destroy the DPF or blow the exhaust.

I think this is major cause of the bad reputation of DPF equipped diesels. As Boogieman says, a 10 mile run every now and again will get you up to temp and keep the exhaust hot - so long as your stats are ok.

Cost of fuel is another thing altogether and I suspect diesel will go up soon, but then again the quality of fuel is not what it once was. The increased biocontent isn't good for injectors and stuff like that.

If you want some fun (and plenty of headaches) buy a well maintained BMW. I just just changed my e46 320ci (petrol) for an e91 330d (diesel). fuel costs 10% more /ltr but I get about 15% more mpg. But it does 0-60 in under 6 sec!

If you want reliability buy a Toyota

I don't think I've ever seen a thermostat fail open in the past 20 years. I've seen a few electrically assisted ones fail, but that just means they open at a hotter temperature.

The big problem with DPFs has always been short journeys. A DPF takes about 5-10 minutes of reasonable driving to get hot enough to start regeneration, then a further 15-30minutes to carry out a complete regen. Once a regen has started, you don't even have to be driving hard and it'll usually continue in slow traffic, but a DPF won't usually get hot enough to start a regen in slow traffic.

EricTheWeary

15,000 is the tipping point we've been told by garages. Generally speaking diesel engines seem to have longer lives than petrol ones which is good when buying used ( I think). They obviously have more torque if you need to tow anything or carry heavy loads. I used to have a diesel Fiesta which was incredibly slow but it was completely unfazed by really big hills - it's only virtue. 

Schnozz

It's a really hard choice...Damn you DPF

m_c

FX_Munkee said:

boogieman said:

FX_Munkee said:

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

15k miles is considered about the tipping point. For your situation the once a week journey should be fine to get the average mpg up and clear out the DPF if you go diesel.

One point to consider is that it's not just the fuel price difference between petrol and diesel. Modern diesels are complicated beasts, this quite often reflects itself in higher service costs compared to modern petrols.

Tbh I didn’t notice any difference in servicing costs when we ran a diesel. Of course if the DPF goes tits up that’s when the major expense will kick in. If they’re too far gone to be cleaned out you could be looking at £2k plus for a new one. 

See also: Dual Mass Flywheels, and EGR systems

You do realise petrol cars also have those fitted?
And particulate filters are starting to be fitted to petrol engines as well?

However, despite the emphasis on particulates, in urban areas there's been no major drop in measured particulates that corresponds with the reduction in vehicle emissions. Attention is now starting to turn to tyre and brake dust being a bigger contributor to airborne particulates, than exhaust particulates.

thomasross20

I do a 50 mile round trip every day. Let's just say 7 days a week in case I go some places at the weekend. Petrol cost is about £60+ a week (ugh - and add on the commute... what am I thinking...). That's 1500 miles in a 30-day month. Christ, so much time and milage and cost...! 

I opted for petrol because of the government's stance on diesel but honestly... I slightly regret it as petrol ain't cheap! I must say I prefer how petrols feel during the drive.

blobb

m_c said:

I don't think I've ever seen a thermostat fail open in the past 20 years. I've seen a few electrically assisted ones fail, but that just means they open at a hotter temperature.

  I did the stat on my e46 twice and there are 2 of 'em on e9x, I've just done both. But then again these are BM's and everyone knows their cooling system is made of cheese.

FX_Munkee

m_c said:

FX_Munkee said:

boogieman said:

FX_Munkee said:

Snags said:

What would people say the tipping point is between petrol/diesel?

I do around £15k p/a in a mix of short journeys (10 mile each way) but once a week or so a 140/170 mile round trip. I'm looking for an estate, and have a few in mind, but almost all of them are diesel by default ...

15k miles is considered about the tipping point. For your situation the once a week journey should be fine to get the average mpg up and clear out the DPF if you go diesel.

One point to consider is that it's not just the fuel price difference between petrol and diesel. Modern diesels are complicated beasts, this quite often reflects itself in higher service costs compared to modern petrols.

Tbh I didn’t notice any difference in servicing costs when we ran a diesel. Of course if the DPF goes tits up that’s when the major expense will kick in. If they’re too far gone to be cleaned out you could be looking at £2k plus for a new one. 

See also: Dual Mass Flywheels, and EGR systems

You do realise petrol cars also have those fitted?
And particulate filters are starting to be fitted to petrol engines as well?

However, despite the emphasis on particulates, in urban areas there's been no major drop in measured particulates that corresponds with the reduction in vehicle emissions. Attention is now starting to turn to tyre and brake dust being a bigger contributor to airborne particulates, than exhaust particulates.

Yep I know some modern petrol cars have those, but they don't take the hammer that they do in a diesel. the torque from a diesel engine pretty much guarantees the DMF will fail sometime during the cars lifetime, petrol not so much and the egr systems in petrol don't get sooted up in the same way.

FX_Munkee

blobb said:

m_c said:

I don't think I've ever seen a thermostat fail open in the past 20 years. I've seen a few electrically assisted ones fail, but that just means they open at a hotter temperature.

  I did the stat on my e46 twice and there are 2 of 'em on e9x, I've just done both. But then again these are BM's and everyone knows their cooling system is made of cheese.

The 2 stats in my e90 are on borrowed time at the moment, bugger to get them out as well.

Nunogilberto

Spend half that amount on a decent Octavia/Mondeo perhaps, and go on a once in a lifetime holiday...

That’s what I’d do, anyway