Lazy J20 and alternatives?

tone1

 Thanks Guys 

hotpickups

tone1 said:

BusterCrabb said:

HI Mark - no drive pedal - guitar volume and a fuzz....

@BusterCrabb ;Can I ask what Fuzz are you using? 

I must admit when I had mine I felt it didn’t like muff fuzzes so much. Fuzz face type pedals were good through it though

olafgarten

I think the 6L6s make a big difference, the power amp in the Lazy J is different from a 5e3 and you could probably get closer with a Deluxe Reverb and a good Tweed Preamp pedal than with a standard Tweed Deluxe. 

BusterCrabb

@tone1  - yep - sunlion 

tone1

@BusterCrabb Thanks 

57Deluxe

Lebarque said:

57Deluxe said:

I can get the  "LazyJ sound" or rather the tone of their breakup/dynamics with a pedal or two (depending on whether I want to emulate a Celestion Blue rather than a Jensen) with my Tweed Deluxe.Is not really any big secret to a Lazy J, just a package that was presented to the market when the other major Tweed players stepped down their marketing - Fender and Victoria specifically ~ c. 2009

What pedals for Celestion Blue?! That would be impressive!

Forget that it says distortion - it is rubbish at that! What it does is add clarity and sparkle and at the same time remove any signal chain hiss or hum - is my Magic pedal...

Center Positive though and no longer produced. Made in Italy.

thebreeze

Fender make a Tweed Deluxe - the Edge model which comes with a Celestion Blue and some modified wiring to tighten the bottom end.  It’s worth checking out in comparison to a Lazy J.  Sweet amp.

mrkb

@bustercrabb - Great gig last night, that’s the first time I’ve been to the Holmfirth Picturedrome but wow, what a great venue and performance - but incredibly hot! What was the new amp you were using? Looked a bit like a Rift Amps original, but logo was wrong.

was also interested in Matts new twin HB Tele style guitar- any idea who built it?

soma1975

Apropos of nothing if someone wanted a taste of a handwired tweed deluxe for not much money they might want to check the classifieds...

mattdavis

martinw said:

Lebarque said:

Why do none of the others offer onboard reverb and trem? Reverb is a deal breaker for me, since I use my guitar volume to control gain.

If that includes me, I do.

I would rather build the result into one if my own chassis in that case though; as @RiftAmps says, less than ideal using the external boxes, and I was disappointed to see there was no separate earth bonding carried to the boxes on the ones I've seen.
 
However adding reverb or trem changes the circuit, reverb the most, which may or may not be desirable. As has been said if you want the full 5E3 experience, you will lose that to some extent.
Although, as he also been said, the J20 is not quite that when fitted with 6L6s. 

@RiftAmps @martinw Hi both - being a completely non-technical person, can I just ask how much of an issue this thing about the reverb module not having its own power/earth thing? Am I risking being electrocuted when I reach round to adjust the reverb? I’d naively assumed these amp designs that reached market were cleared by some sort of authority as being safe! Love the amp to bits and don’t really want to adjust anything for fear of losing its mojo - but would also like to not die in a puff of smoke. Thanks 

ToneControl

mrkb said:

Having seen/heard the amazing tone Paul Sayer got from his Lazy J20s at the guitar show I started thinking that might be a great future amp once funds allow.

I then found it was based on a Tweed Deluxe, which is the amp model I use in most of my crunchy patches in my AXE FX. So does that mean there are alternatives to finding that J20 sound in a cheaper amp? Is the J20 significantly different to a tweed deluxe? Do Fender, Rift or Gartone make similar alternatives at a lower cost?

The 5E3 sound is a very unrefined sound that appeals to a lot of people. It's not a neutral platform though, the later fender amp designs are better for that. It is cathode-biased, and adds a wonderful compression and a very mid-heavy sound which begs to be used with alnico or similarly-voiced Jensen speakers, to dial out the mids

It's worth considering that the 5E3 amp is one of the top 3 all time popular amp designs, i.e. most people like it a lot.
Therefore deviations from it are likely to please some and not others. I'd say try a plain 5E3 with a well-matched speaker and cab before buying any 5E3-derived design

NB The law of GAS states that you will not get the same tone someone else did, even with all the same kit

I've never seen a Gartone offered at prices below Lazy J, some amp sellers manage to sell amps at higher prices for the same sort of specs. After buying, looking inside and playing many amps, I would recommend not assuming that a higher RRP is a sufficient guide to quality of sound or construction. Some brands sell better than others.  In the case of the 5E3 designs, it's a 70 year old circuit that a beginner can build from a set of instructions, any good amp maker can build one well.

Wienbrock used to make several amps based on 5E3 designs:
essentially 5E3, 5X3 (that's with 6L6s instead), one that could do both, and a double 5X3 that was amazing - to me better than any 5E3-derived design I have ever heard (ME4 and some other name later on. 4 x 6L6)
These models sometimes turn up on ebay at prices far below what they should be.
They had switches to modernise the EQ if required (i.e. scoop the mids)

The current best value builder I know is MJW. Build quality is as good as any boutique builder, but costs are kept low because he keeps overheads low and builds his own cabs

Some people bought or built Ceriatone kits, these turn up on ebay at low prices, and are very good plain 5E3s

I'd recommend just using a delay with a couple of short repeats rather than reverb

ToneControl

olafgarten said:

I think the 6L6s make a big difference, the power amp in the Lazy J is different from a 5e3 and you could probably get closer with a Deluxe Reverb and a good Tweed Preamp pedal than with a standard Tweed Deluxe. 

AFAIK the dual-purpose 6V6 / 6L6 amps like this step away from the 5E3 sound because:

• with 6L6s it's a different sound anyway
• with 6V6s it no longer sounds like a 5E3 because the output transformer is now over-spec, and you lose the saturation effects from the transformer. Few people ever talk about this, but saturation from transformers, even at line level in studios and hifi gives a very noticeable sound

RiftAmps

mattdavis said:

@RiftAmps @martinw Hi both - being a completely non-technical person, can I just ask how much of an issue this thing about the reverb module not having its own power/earth thing? Am I risking being electrocuted when I reach round to adjust the reverb? I’d naively assumed these amp designs that reached market were cleared by some sort of authority as being safe! Love the amp to bits and don’t really want to adjust anything for fear of losing its mojo - but would also like to not die in a puff of smoke. Thanks 

If a fault develops, you may be at risk of electrocution and/or fire.

All mnfrs of mains powered equipment sold in the U.K/EU MUST ensure that their products are built to at least the minimum safety standards, and carry the appropriate markings.

A competent designer/mnfr will ensure that their products are built to a higher standard than the minimum regs, such as an IEC etc


If you see a mains powered appliance that does not carry the required markings, then there are two possible reasons:

1 - The mnfr is not aware of the regulations and is selling their products anyway

2 - The mnfr is aware that their products are not built to the minimum regulations, and is selling their products anyway


I don’t know which scares me the most.


More reading here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-equipment-safety-regulations-2016

mattdavis

Thanks for that. What kind of fault do you mean @RiftAmps ?

brooom

I've always truly failed to understand the appeal of Lazy J amps.

Alex335

My divided by 13 JRT 9/15 gets very close to my J20 especially with a celestial blue in.  ( both of which are currently in the classifieds ) the DB13 has a bigger sound due to the cab size and i would say slightly more upper mid focused where the J is slightly warmer in the lower mids. both have about the same amount of clean head room despite the DB13 being rated a 9watts running on 6v6's.
despite the praise both amps get for their driven sound its always been warm dynamic clean sound that really did it for me.
both great amps, marginally different flavours of the same thing!

breezytele

Reverb module is very safely grounded in my  Lazy J. 
(And all the others; I asked Jesse. )

mattdavis

Well I bloody love mine. Keep wanting to sell it to release cash but I just can’t. I come from Marshall with Les Paul land, but find the cleans and break up sounds so wonderfully warm and characterful and the reverb is gorgeous . Frankly worth risking electrocution. I can’t work out why, if they are death traps, many high profile musicians use them on stages round the world. 
I may get in touch with Jesse as a service is probably   due and I’ll ask him about how the reverb module is earthed/powered. 
Cheers

mattdavis

brooom said:

I've always truly failed to understand the appeal of Lazy J amps.

Don’t worry. There are support groups I can signpost you to. They meet just after the deluded-lazy J-owner workshop finishes.  

Majorscale

mattdavis said:

brooom said:

I've always truly failed to understand the appeal of Lazy J amps.

Don’t worry. There are support groups I can signpost you to. They meet just after the deluded-lazy J-owner workshop finishes.  

By coincidence I was with Jesse today getting my amp serviced and he was showing me the grounds in the units...