The guitarist theory of relativity.

ThePrettyDamned

I was playing earlier, working on perfecting a riff I've written, and I was using the Duncan power grid through the clean channel of the bandit. I was super happy with the thick, crunchy modded Marshall sound it gave. It really sounded fab! Leads have that 'on the edge of being a harmonic or feedback' sound, too, which dumble players go on about.

Then I thought, I'm going to use the bandit drive. Why not? So I switch.

It's horribly bassy, super thick, not cutting at all... Hmm, how was I happy with this?

Still, I played on and realised it was not bassy, just warm and very USA - sounding. Quite liked the massive sound it gave chords, and it cleans up better than the power grid, too! Neat.

Back to the power grid. Er, this is nasty bright, those mids are a bit offensive... But hang on, actually, it sounds fine... Etc

Basically, I discovered that, relative to each other, both of my favourite current sounds are crap.

But when you just play them as what they are, your ears tune to them and they sound great. Before I compared them, I thought both were really great sounds, but once I switched both sounded shite because my ears were used to one or the other.

Anyway, don't know what the point in this thread was... Basically, distortion is good and really shit? I think.

PolarityMan

I always figure the sound doesn't matter as much as the riff for rock music, you hear some truly disgusting tones that are part of complete classic songs all the time. (Pantera?)

Cacofonix

It's to do with the way your ears interpret the bass and treble frequencies.

Probably.

Bidley

PolarityMan said:

I always figure the sound doesn't matter as much as the riff for rock music, you hear some truly disgusting tones that are part of complete classic songs all the time. (Pantera?)

Oh god this. Tone is not something I listen to music for.

ThePrettyDamned

PolarityMan;225552" said:

I always figure the sound doesn't matter as much as the riff for rock music, you hear some truly disgusting tones that are part of complete classic songs all the time. (Pantera?)

Yeah, I guess that's it. I always find the tone at the start of cowboys from hell to be harsh and nasty, then the song really starts and it's amazing.

steamabacus

It's your subconscious mind trying to tell you that you NEED a second Peavey Bandit.

Bandit drive channel left, Duncan Powergrid into clean channel right. Just think about it.......

ThePrettyDamned

steamabacus;225567" said:

It's your subconscious mind trying to tell you that you NEED a second Peavey Bandit.



Bandit drive channel left, Duncan Powergrid into clean channel right. Just think about it.......

Do you know, that's a brilliant idea.

I don't have room for a bandit, but I could probably squeeze a studio pro or something in... Local shop had a silver stripe USA one for 60 quid in as new condition, maybe I should demo it again...

steamabacus

I should be on commission.

I'm using two amps for my current ambient trio project, just playing at miniscule volume in my home studio. A Blackstar HT-5 and a Laney VC15, both barely ticking over - but, oh, those stereo delays......

ThePrettyDamned

steamabacus;225578" said:

I should be on commission.



I'm using two amps for my current ambient trio project, just playing at miniscule volume in my home studio. A Blackstar HT-5 and a Laney VC15, both barely ticking over - but, oh, those stereo delays......

The nova repeater is stereo and has a ping pong mode...

I don't do ambient as much as I'd like, I only really use it in quiet verses or bridge sections.

dindude

I know what the OP means. With multiple drives on my board I've struggled over the years to find a set that really works together as one whole. I want different sounds but I don't want one to be really open sounding and one to be hyper compressed (for example) as it just sounds silly when you switch between them.

EdGrip

I think this is calling out for you to record a double-tracked demo with hard left and right stereo pans. ^_^

p90fool

It's because our memory for tone is crap, and our ability to compensate is excellent.

My limit for mixing a single song in the studio is about forty minutes before I lose all objectivity, and even then I sometimes wonder what the hell I was thinking when I come back to it.

I keep a file of commercial releases in different styles as "ear reference" for when I need to get back on track. Similarly, I use good quality Youtube backing tracks to make sure I'm in the right sort of frequency zone for my guitar sounds.

Our ears adjust to most things in isolation, but actually so do our hands, you can make an uninspiring tone work for you after about ten minutes of noodling just by subconsciously changing how and where you pick.

digitalscream

Think of it as Schrodinger's paradox for guitar tones, only with an added time element.

Happens to me all the time, especially when auditioning cab models and impulses when I'm recording. Bloody nightmare.

ThePrettyDamned

EdGrip;225815" said:

I think this is calling out for you to record a double-tracked demo with hard left and right stereo pans. ^_^

I actually tend to triple and quad track now.

One panned 80 percent left, one panned 80 percent right (one of each tone) then one panned 20 percent each way, with the tones in reverse, if that makes sense.

Triple tracking, I have 60 percent each way with bandit tone and dead centre for the third one, which is a different tone.

But I might try hard left and right.

The problem is timing - I play a lot of fast stuff, and it's much easier with a drummer than it is with a metronome! I'm getting better though, I'll see if I can post a tone taster on here.

Problem is, it might be shit and my ears have just compensated...

ICBM

This also the explanation for why we "need" new gear all the time. It always sounds better than what we have.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;225881" said:

This also the explanation for why we "need" new gear all the time. It always sounds better than what we have.

Is it a conspiracy?

Is there such thing as a good amp? Is tone real?

I just don't know.

randomhandclaps

PolarityMan said:

I always figure the sound doesn't matter as much as the riff for rock music, you hear some truly disgusting tones that are part of complete classic songs all the time. (Pantera?)

This is always the attitude people need to take in to the studio.  It's not only amazing the effort it takes to bridge the gulf between what a guitarist thinks sounds good in isolation and what sounds good in a mix,  it's also amazing how when recording after a break of a night time or even a lunch break the perception of tonal change leads to a conspiracy of "Man, what have you touched?  It all looks the same but something' different.".

All though not entirely related to TPD's original point one issue I find leads to this kind of perception is the way we practice.  Most people when playing on their own are in a relatively small space, in the spot they usually sit, playing through an amp that never moves.  Their ears only ever hear how their amp sounds in that room and at that angle.   It's why I always chuckle when people post "Can you guess what amp this is?" threads because as I have said before the scope for what elements, characteristic and tonal qualities you can pick up from any given amp varies massively dependent of not only mic choice, but mic (or listener) position.  No two people at a gig are hearing the exact same tone from your amp.

As @PolarityMan says above tone is secondary to most other elements when playing a riff.  How it sits with the other instruments and works as a whole arrangement is key.  As I said in the Jimmy Page thread, people 'remember' Page's sound as big.  The truth is far from it, the arrangements are big and his relatively mid focused tone massively important to this.  As a recording guitarist this is a balance and a sacrifice you have to learn to attune your ears to.

Dave_Mc

yeah i always find my ears adjust- i've said it before, but if i play a humbucker guitar one day, it sounds great, then if i play a single coil guitar the next day it sounds way too trebly and thin. then if i go back to the humbucker guitar the day after it sounds way too dark and muddy. at least to a certain extent, my ears seem to get used to what they're listening to and set that as the baseline before too long.

randomhandclaps

It's why in an ideal world a man should have many guitars, many amps, many pedals and many wives.