Why is it ...

JezWynd

mbe said:

I'm a stickler for tuning accuracy, but electric guitars are meant to be played in a band and then any inaccuracy in tunings/intonation blends in.

mbe

JezWynd said:

mbe said:

I'm a stickler for tuning accuracy, but electric guitars are meant to be played in a band and then any inaccuracy in tunings/intonation blends in.

He had to stop though Simon. He must have thought it was time for a tune up.

crunchman

ICBM said:

It might also be worth thinking about Earvana nuts - some people find them an improvement over a standard one. @FelineGuitars can advise...

The other option is what PRS do.  They use a conventional nut, but have a slightly shorter distance to the first fret than the theoretically correct distance.  This does help compensate for the fact that you make it slightly sharper when when you fret a note.

It's not as accurate as things like Earvana, but it does seem to help a bit.  PRS did have a patent on that, but I'm sure it has expired by now.

Also, check that you aren't pressing too hard on the strings.

Funkfingers

Phil_aka_Pip said:

What ever I do, something always sound wrong.

You are The Phantom Fretboard Strangler and I claim my five Pounds.

thegummy

It's just the case that equal temperament is a compromise - no guitar can be perfectly in tune for all chords.

The posts suggesting the OP is doing something wrong or there's something wrong with his guitars must just not be as picky about accurate tuning as he.

p90fool

I always tune the low E and the G slightly flat. If you want to avoid the strings "beating" against each with a gain you may want to drop the top E a few cents too. 

You need the nut slots to be a perfect depth before you do anything though, and depending on your playing technique may want to move your low E bridge saddle back a touch too. 

I'm very pitch-sensitive and can generally pull a guitar in tune as I play it to reasonable extent, as long as I leave the cowboy chords to the cowboys. 

RandallFlagg

It's Jazz, accept it.

viz

thegummy said:

It's just the case that equal temperament is a compromise - no guitar can be perfectly in tune for all chords.

The posts suggesting the OP is doing something wrong or there's something wrong with his guitars must just not be as picky about accurate tuning as he.

Yes that’s probably part of it. Your frets are equal temperament, meaning that fret zero to fret 5 is a slightly wide perfect 4th, therefore your strings should also be a slightly wide perfect 4th. 

Try tuning your guitar like this:  

Recommended methods
If you tune all the strings to the same reference string, you can avoid a small error on one string affecting all the others.

Tune the high E string to a reference: compare
5th fret E on the B string: adjust B
9th fret E on the G string: adjust G
14th fret E on the D string: adjust D
7th fret E on the A string (one octave below); adjust A
5th fret harmonic on the low E string: adjust low E.

http://www.truetemperament.com/tuning-methods-evaluated/


someone on here had a good method referencing G but I can’t find it. 

BenSirAmos

The 'well-tempered clavier' is a compromise and is, therefore, inherently out of tune - as is all Western music. 

ICBM

crunchman said:

The other option is what PRS do.  They use a conventional nut, but have a slightly shorter distance to the first fret than the theoretically correct distance.  This does help compensate for the fact that you make it slightly sharper when when you fret a note.

Technically it's not because you're pulling it sharp - which you won't if the nut is cut low enough - it's because the strings are not perfectly flexible where they leave the nut groove, since they're not 'ideal' theoretical strings with no thickness. This makes the string slightly stiffer at the nut and causes the note to play flat... which since that doesn't happen as much with a fretted note, means that in order to remove the difference, you need to move the nut forward slightly to sharpen the open strings relative to the fretted ones. This was actually known about long before PRS - in fact Hamer were doing it in the 1970s - so I'm not sure how they were able to patent it. (Although that applies to many other patents too!)

midlifecrisis

as others have said, your nuts too high...... could try playing sitting down.

Musicman20

I find my Les Paul isn't the best for staying in tune..but it could do with a setup.

Saying that, now the weather isn't as cold, it has held up much better and the new-ish string have had a stretch now. 

builttospill

I had anger inducing tuning issues with my natural burst SG Standard 'Twas beautiful looking thing but I couldn't get the fecker to stay in tune, it would go out of tune by just looking at it, not down to intonation it was definitely a nut issue at the time.  

stickyfiddle

viz said:

thegummy said:

It's just the case that equal temperament is a compromise - no guitar can be perfectly in tune for all chords.

The posts suggesting the OP is doing something wrong or there's something wrong with his guitars must just not be as picky about accurate tuning as he.

Yes that’s probably part of it. Your frets are equal temperament, meaning that fret zero to fret 5 is a slightly wide perfect 4th, therefore your strings should also be a slightly wide perfect 4th. 

Try tuning your guitar like this:  

Recommended methods
If you tune all the strings to the same reference string, you can avoid a small error on one string affecting all the others.

Tune the high E string to a reference: compare
5th fret E on the B string: adjust B
9th fret E on the G string: adjust G
14th fret E on the D string: adjust D
7th fret E on the A string (one octave below); adjust A
5th fret harmonic on the low E string: adjust low E.

http://www.truetemperament.com/tuning-methods-evaluated/


someone on here had a good method referencing G but I can’t find it. 

I do similar but tuned to A: 

1. Get A string in tune
2. Tune low E to the A with 5th/7th harmonics
3. Tune D to A with 5th/7th harmonics
4. Tune G based on A string 12th fret harmonic against the G fretted at 2nd fret (relies on your nut being cut perfectly, otherwise this bit will fuck you up)
5. Tune B 5th fret to A string 7th fret harmonic
6. Tune high E to A string 7th fret and low E 5th fret harmonics 

Rocker

The OP needs to get his guitar fitted with an Earvana nut.  Or better still the BFTS.  Try an Anderson and you will know at once if the BFTS solution to your problem has been found.  I understand that Feline guitars have Earvana nuts fitted.  Another possible solution to your problem.  A slightly cheaper option is to get your guitar professionally setup, the factory fitted nut is often cut very high which causes some chords and strings to sound out of tune, despite the guitar being in 'tune'.  Oh and to be certain your guitar is in 'tune', get yourself a Peterson tuner.

crunchman

ICBM said:

crunchman said:

The other option is what PRS do.  They use a conventional nut, but have a slightly shorter distance to the first fret than the theoretically correct distance.  This does help compensate for the fact that you make it slightly sharper when when you fret a note.

Technically it's not because you're pulling it sharp - which you won't if the nut is cut low enough - it's because the strings are not perfectly flexible where they leave the nut groove, since they're not 'ideal' theoretical strings with no thickness. This makes the string slightly stiffer at the nut and causes the note to play flat... which since that doesn't happen as much with a fretted note, means that in order to remove the difference, you need to move the nut forward slightly to sharpen the open strings relative to the fretted ones. This was actually known about long before PRS - in fact Hamer were doing it in the 1970s - so I'm not sure how they were able to patent it. (Although that applies to many other patents too!)

It does seem to help.  I played once with a guy who is a professional concert pianist in his other job.  He commented on how in tune the PRS I was using at the time sounded. Does anyone know how far PRS move the bridge?  I'm going to Crimson next month to build a guitar, and I'm wondering whether it might make sense to do this with the nut.

Phil_aka_Pip

It's not that the tuning drifts. I try to get all the octaves right: between the 5th and 2nd strings, between the 5th and 3rd strings, the 6th and 4th, the 6th and 3rd, the 3rd and 1st, the 4th and 2nd ... and that makes some of the 3rd intervals sound crap and the 5th intervals aren't too clever anyway. Usually they are flat, as required by equal temperament tuning but even when "right" they are still wrong!

dilbert

midlifecrisis said:

as others have said, your nuts too high...... could try playing sitting down.

@midlifecrisis; have a LOL, grinning ear to ear! 

merlin

crunchman said:

Also, check that you aren't pressing too hard on the strings.

Harsh but fair. Whenever my brother came around and we played a bit together, despite whatever instrument he played, his open D chord was always really out of tune because his left hand was tense as a crazy tense thing. 

TINMAN82

Do you have perfect pitch? Apparently it can be a nightmare rather than a blessing for this sort of reason.