Fender Stratocaster American Special trem arm does not screw in

skinfreak

Hi there,

Anyone with a American Special have trouble with the trem arm? I just bought one and it did not come with a trem arm. The guitar shop sent one out but I notice that it does not screw in very easily - at least more than 3 turns. Having not had a strat with a vintage trem I am not sure if it should only go in further. It is certainly difficult to tighten up past the point where you cannot see the thread on the trem arm. Is this normal?

Funkfingers

The shop sent you the wrong arm.

Do not attempt to force the arm any further into the block. It will probably damage both threads. The arm could snap within the block. (A swine of a job to sort out.)

Fender American Special series instruments often use generic Asian hardware. Hence, an American Standard or Vintage Reissue vibrato arm will not fit a Metric bridge or vice versa.

skinfreak

Oh and the trem arm does not go in straight either.

skinfreak

Funkfingers said:

Fender American Special series instruments often use generic Asian hardware. Hence, an American Standard or Vintage Reissue vibrato arm will not fit a Metric bridge or vice versa.

It is a PW-36 tremelo.

ICBM

skinfreak said:

Oh and the trem arm does not go in straight either.

It's not meant to. That's the correct angle - the idea is that you swing the arm round to the back when you put the guitar in the case, not take it out.

It's all the modern ones with the arm socket vertical which are wrong - but that also confirms that it's the wrong arm, since it should be bent at more than a right angle or it will point right up into the air like that. When it's swung round to the back, it should almost touch the body.

skinfreak

Thank you both - I'll get on the blower then. Havent posted my NGD thread yet...must do that....

Funkfingers

skinfreak said:

It is a PW-36 tremelo.

Ping-Well. (Formerly Taiwan, now P. R.O.C.) Metric.

CasperCaster

Err, PW36 is indeed Ping-Weil, but these steel blocks actually have an Imperial thread arm and NOT metric. My guess is that the store sent you a slightly wider 5mm metric arm (as used on the PW29 block) and that is why it doesn't fit and also why it is at the wrong angle (PW29 is tapped straight, so arm bend is different) - you may well damage the threads if you carry on.

Anyway, the correct arm is approx 5mm diameter but is turned down to 3/16" just above the threads, and has a 10-32 thread. The American Specials also come with a spring already inserted in the trem arm hole, which will also offer some resistance. 

skinfreak

Hmmmm...response from GuitarGuitar: 

The trem arm we've sent you is taken from an American Special Strat so should fit okay. The image you've sent us actually looks relatively normal - the arm doesn't need to screw all the way in and should angle away from the body slightly. If you would prefer it to be angled slightly inwards then there's nothing wrong with just bending the arm into position as per your preference.

Funkfingers

skinfreak said:
the trem vibrato arm does not go in straight 

The arm angle looks "wrong" in your photograph because you do not have the bridge baseplate tilted to the angle that Fender intended. 

When the baseplate tilt is correct, the threaded end of the arm should be roughly perpendicular to the top of the guitar body.

SNAKEBITE

skinfreak said:

Hmmmm...response from GuitarGuitar: 

The trem arm we've sent you is taken from an American Special Strat so should fit okay. The image you've sent us actually looks relatively normal - the arm doesn't need to screw all the way in and should angle away from the body slightly. If you would prefer it to be angled slightly inwards then there's nothing wrong with just bending the arm into position as per your preference.

Bullshit.

The arm, regardless of the angle should screw in with no resistance right up until the end of the thread.

The fact that you can only screw it in ~3turns means the thread is either wrong or not formed correctly (discounting muck in the threads).

The jaunty angle you have is due to the arm not being square to the thread in the guitar body, as a result of above explanation.

Tell GG to sort it out!

Nerine

Yeah. I wouldn't be having that as an excuse. 

skinfreak

When the guitar was handed to me the trem was at a fairly high angle - lots of float. But that would of course make it appear to have been straight out of the body so maybe it is the right arm.  I have seen others with this but it seemed too extreme in terms of float for me. I was wondering whether the resistance was slightly in my mind not knowing what to expect though.  Checking out stock images on the web I can see the angle on the bar:



The basic problem still stands. The bar gains friction between 2 and 3 turns in. Now I can screw it in until you cannot see any thread but there is a fair bit of tension on - i don't feel like i need to force it but it definitely is not free of resistance. I have not dared screw it in until I cannot move it. But each time it goes in there's a tiny but more play and more black grease on the thread. I cannot see any filings or metal fragments and there's no grinding. Could it be it just needs to loosen up? Or that some joker has mucked it up somehow?

SNAKEBITE

It could be that there is muck in the threads from the manufacturing process, or that the threas was not formed 100% correctly.

Every time you screw it in it maybe rounding off the rough edges.

Not ideal, but if you can screw it in all the way, until you cannot se any thread, then it might just be ok.

Sorry, but without actually seeing what it is like I cannot say for certain.

Best thing may be to get it to someone who can see it and tell you for certain.

ICBM

That sounds very much like trying to force an M5 arm into a 3/16” block.

For what it's worth I think the spring is the wrong solution to the loose arm problem though - see if you can get it out (if there is actually one in there) and if it makes it easier.

Even with the bridge set up to float, the arm socket shouldn’t be vertical - it should still make the arm swing low over the body when it’s pointing away from the strings. This was an intentional part of Leo’s design - it’s mentioned in the original marketing for the Strat - but Fender themselves seem to have forgotten that since they now tell you to take the arm out to put the guitar in the case. Don’t - it wears the threads out much faster.

CasperCaster

Hi, I'll take some pics later today and post, but as a point of reference I tried my arm in my Am Spec trem and observed the following:

 -The arm is sat quite high when it first engages the threads. Maybe 8 - 9mm of the threads are visible above the bridge plate. At this point I could almost pull the arm back out as it is just engaging the threads, maybe 1/4 turn.

-So, with the arm just engaged it then takes 14 full turns until the arm is fully threaded into the block. Clearly no threads are now visible above the bridge plate. Approximately the last two turns offer some resistance which I believe is the small spring inserted in the block. Mine came with this inserted (circular silver sticker over the hole when new, and initially I could see it when I removed the sticker). From memory, the first time I put the arm in there was more resistance as the spring compressed, but now it just offers resistance in the last two turns.

--There is no 'black grease' on mine. I would guess this is actually finely ground metal, and tells me you need to stop before you damage the block. For context 3/16" is approx 4.75mm so it is probably possible to force a 5mm arm into the block, but both block and arm threads will get damaged. 

-I took a look at a Mexican Std trem (PW29) that I have (fat block) and like the Am Spec the arm hole is angled. I previously said these were straight (my bad/ old age etc!). Anyway, with the exception of the threads a recent Mexican Std arm looks almost identical to the Am Spec arm. You can't tell them apart without measuring across the threads with a caliper. I still think the most likely problem is that you have the wrong arm.

SNAKEBITE

CasperCaster said:

-I took a look at a Mexican Std trem (PW29) that I have (fat block) and like the Am Spec the arm hole is angled. I previously said these were straight (my bad/ old age etc!). Anyway, with the exception of the threads a recent Mexican Std arm looks almost identical to the Am Spec arm. You can't tell them apart without measuring across the threads with a caliper. I still think the most likely problem is that you have the wrong arm.

Lay one thread over the other and hold up to the light.

If they mate perfectly then they match, if they do not mate then they are of a different pitch (metric vs Imperial).

This won't give you a dimension, but will confirm if the threads are the same.