Need help valuing a custom built guitar

stonevibe

My friend from work needs to sell his guitar, he has just had a load of heart surgery and needs to part with this. The guitar was a gift from his wife and she had it built by a luthier, who now apparently just makes violins!

He has sent me some photos and is going to ask his better half the name of the luthier as he cannot remember. So, for now, I have the pics to share, but if I get more info I will update this thread.

I played the guitar a while back and it sustains forever and plays beautifully, so I can confirm it is a well-made instrument. I know Hugh Manson has played it and loved it, so I have advised my friend to get him to appraise it as well.

With anything 'one-off' and not a known brand I know it will be hard to value, but looking for some advice to pass on to my mate Adrian.

Any help much appreciated.

Weight is 8lb 2oz

I'm not sure of what all the woods are, but it rings like a bell when you plug it in, so don't think any of it was cheap. 

https://i.imgur.com/HzeYBml.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZX4Y0Ro.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GCS0j31.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/msrV069.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r9K7RBk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/28k7Dne.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kcgKPVO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/J8dSVPj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BnV4B0G.jpg

guitars4you

First of all, sorry to hear about your friend - hope recuperation is going okay and continues that way

However I can't offer so much good news about the value of the guitar - I dare say to have such a hand built guitar today from the likes of Manson or our own Feline Guitar would be in excess of £2500 maybe £3000 - And certainly for insurance purposes you will need to cover it for such replacement value

But to sell it I'm afraid you will struggle to get £500 for it as it has no known pedigree - Doesn't matter how well it plays etc, to many it is to much of an unknown quantity

I'm guessing it was built in the 80's based on the 'jam sandwich' vibe that many of the Jap Matsumoku factory turned out

In such circumstances I hate to offer such bad news - In fact I hope I'm wrong - Will be interesting to see what other FB guys suggest

Best wishes to your friend

Bridgehouse

Knowing the maker may be the difference between £500 and £5000....

mgaw

is it Brazilian Rosewood on the front and Mahogany back?  certainly looks beautifully made and very much of an era...appraised by Hugh Manson wont do much IMO...there are a few great guitars popping up from time to time from unknown builders and they never seem to attract much money...


as an example I bought a parlour guitar built by a chap in Norwich who only built 5 or 6 guitars then stopped and just did instrument repairs, it was beautifully built, light as a feather, great woods sounding superb I paid £750 for it used and a few years later struggled to get £400 for it, even when people played it, loved it but cos there is no name it was overlooked..

p90fool

Its obvious quality won't be reflected in the price I'm afraid.

octatonic

It looks like a great guitar but echoing others you will never get the money back if it isn't a named brand.
£500 sounds a bit right but also expect it to take ages to sell- there are very few buyers for unnamed, high spec/quality instruments.

Wonky

I'd also say around the £500 mark. 
Although it looks a real beauty and side by side would probably give an Gibson SG a proper pasting, it's a weird thing in the guitar world where instruments aren't worth what they're worth because they're good or not, but rather the name stamped on them.
Like others have said though, could be worth a lot more if it had the right luthier name to it.

Bridgehouse

The name is everything. An acquantance of mine inherited an old f-style mandolin with no name on the headstock. 

After much research his £500ish no name mandolin was verified as a Monteleone (really early one) worth about £20k

ICBM

I would agree with £500 if the luthier isn't a 'known' one.

I would strongly suggest that given that that sort of money is rarely enough to make a life-changing difference, and that it was a gift from his wife and probably cost far more, that he should not sell it. It looks like too good a guitar to part with for that little as well.

If he is determined to sell it, I would advertise it on *bass* forums - really! Bass players are much keener on that sort of construction and often less obsessed with brand names, and if you find a bassist who wants a guitar, it could sell more easily there.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

I would agree with £500 if the luthier isn't a 'known' one.

I would strongly suggest that given that that sort of money is rarely enough to make a life-changing difference, and that it was a gift from his wife and probably cost far more, that he should not sell it. It looks like too good a guitar to part with for that little as well.

agree with you that the sentimental valuation is far higher

HarrySeven

I'm with the comments above.

As tFB's prime hoarder of unloved and weird sh*te, I own (and have owned) numerous "one-off" luthier-built guitars - and pretty much without exception, all have (or had) very low residual value for the reasons outlined by other contributors.

NB. If you check the sale archives of Gardiner Houlgate, over the years, there are many examples of guitars which must have cost an arm and a leg when new, but only made a few hundred (if that) when auctioned.

guitars4you

Bridgehouse said:

The name is everything. An acquantance of mine inherited an old f-style mandolin with no name on the headstock. 

After much research his £500ish no name mandolin was verified as a Monteleone (really early one) worth about £20k

In both the mandolin and violin trade, both have largely been influenced by small workshops for many years now - Some are more well known than others - Many violins have no name as such but can be attributed to an era, date, country, or a 'school of excellence' and still be worth a lot of money - But they don't operate in the same 'brand commercial driven market' as electric guitars - Guitars can still have a  pedigree from small dedicated workshops, but even so to have no name is rare, especially in the last 50 years or so 

The electric market is driven so much by a recognized name on the headstock - Rightly or wrongly

Fading memory bank on my part - But I somehow recall a similar guitar that I sold 10 years ago - Sure it had something to do with Manson's - Either a prototype or a junior luthier who worked there - No name on it - Similar style to the above guitar - Sold it for around £300 

@harryseven - My thoughts entirely regarding such guitars sold via Gardiner + Houlgate - This and my own knowledge influenced my earlier comments

blobb

That's lovely, right up my street. Look like Kent Armstrong pups?

Nerine

blobb said:

That's lovely, right up my street. Look like Kent Armstrong pups?

Ah, Kent Armstrong. 

Brush Script MT logo. 

Andyjr1515

It's beautifully built and finished!  But I agree with the others...luthier custom builds have generally low resale values which bear little resemblance to the original price in any case, but when that is an unknown luthier too...

It is worth taking the back control cover off and having a look just in case there's a label or name there...that's certainly where I put my own build labels on through-neck custom builds.

stonevibe

Cheers guys, all input super helpful and I will pass it on to my friend.

An update, it was built by a gentleman called  John Matthews

Message from my friend below

His name is John Matthews and is probably retired, about 8 years older than me. He built some violins, acoustic and electric guitars and was a perfectionist. He would very carefully select the wood he was going to use. A friend asked him to make a cello bow, and this friend showed to a famous lady cellist (about 30 years ago) she loved it and had John make many over the next 20 years or so and introduced him to many professional violinists, cellist an bass players. His bows started at least at £2k a go and are still highly regarded. I don’t think he advertised it was all word of mouth, I believe he got too busy at one point.

SlopeSoarer

Would it be worth contacting Mr Matthew for something from him to verify that he did make it (provenance). If he is well known in the violin world maybe advertise on violin forum?

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p90fool

That's a good idea. I sold a theorbo last year and managed to find the luthier who made it in 1979. 

Having the full spec, receipts and the whole backstory via email made a big difference to the buyer. 

stonevibe

SlopeSoarer said:

Would it be worth contacting Mr Matthew for something from him to verify that he did make it (provenance). If he is well known in the violin world maybe advertise on violin forum?

Details 

Details

Good plan, I will pass this on to my friend.

axisus

It's a fab looking guitar! Looks proper class