Strat springs

HPhillipsmusic

Hello guys

I know this topic has been done to death but have a question I can't find answers to. I recently received a delightful American Professional strat which had 3 black springs in the back (didn't come with spares), set up for 9s/10s with a floating bridge. I was in the studio when it came and wanted to immediately switch it to 11's, which of course jacked the bridge up crazy high.

(I know this is boring and long winded but bear with me strat-setter-uppers). I like the bridge to be near enough flush with the body with maybe 1mm or 2 of raise. To counteract the bridge jacking up, and not having any spare springs, I took some springs out of my 80's Korean Squier, which also had 3 springs but I noticed they were bigger and beefier. I fitted them in a triangle formation and everything worked out great, the trem sat down and a bit of tinkering with the claws got it bang on. However I've read that the triangle thing isn't great practise, so I planned to buy a new set of Fender springs so that I can have 4, as I usually would. 

When the Fender springs came, they were shorter than both the black ones that came with the guitar, and the silver ones I took out of the Korean strat. Nonetheless I replaced the 3 Korean springs with 4 of the shorter ones and again tweaked the claw. The tone changed fairly dramatically, more bass, less chime and spank to my ears. Immediately sought to swap back to the 3 Korean ones I had used - These seem to have the best sound to them, however (and this I guess is the crux of  my post), the springs are different to the other sets of springs, the hook end of the spring that sits in the trem block seem to be elongated, and as a result the springs dont sit flush with the trem block - I'm confident that they go in as deep into the holes as the other springs, but as they sit slightly higher, I started to worry that maybe it would put too much stress on the hook ends and that I'm at risk of them exploding. The plastic cover for the back of the strat won't even sit on the back of the guitar without being raised a bit by the top of the springs. 




I know this is a lot of waffle, my question I suppose is, does anyone know if this is an issue, and am I safe to continue using them? The tone is better quite honestly, for me, with these springs as opposed to the 3 black ones that came with the strat (too soft and couldn't handle 11's), or the new set of Fender Vintage Trem springs, which are shorter stiffer and seemed to alter tone in a way I didn't enjoy. I did have a 4th spring in the Korean set, but the hook end actually snapped off when I was fitting it - I wondered if that was to do with the age of the springs (30 years old), but either way it gave me more reason to be uneasy about the prospect of these slightly ill-fitting Korean springs snapping.

Would really appreciate you guys advice, as I'm loathed to take it anywhere, I love getting hands on with my guitars where possible and being able to problem solve is important to me! 

Thank you
H

JustMe

Why isn't "the triangle thing good practice" ? Its the industry standard configuration

Alnico

@ICBM ;

They're doing the triangle thing !!!

Get in here,....Quick !


LOL

Alnico

I would probably tweak the angle of the bit of the spring that goes into the block. I've had them like that. If you feed that "Spike" into the block all the way, the springs are sat on the floor of the trem cavity and you have to bend them up to reach the claw, which also feels wrong.

I'm not a Tech.

Probably better to let one of those guys tell you for sure.

I use Gotoh HD Springs and never have an ounce of trouble in Strats and Superstrats.

On 10-52 strings I can use only 2 springs and have a featherlight touch to the arm. The claw would be 3/4's adjust, maybe a touch more.

If I wanted it heavier and less stretched out, I can add a 3rd spring and the claw would barely be at halfway adjusted.

 @GluedtoMusic is where I buy mine.

£5 a set for 3 springs.

Honestly I'd never buy any others having found these.

HPhillipsmusic

@JustMe Just what I’ve read recently while reading up on this, nothing against it myself, but my question relates more to the springs sitting properly or not.

@Alnico got any advice? 

Alnico

Our posts crossed. ^

Alnico

The triangle thing isn't advisable because you're pulling the springs (outer) across two planes instead of only one and for reasons of magic and science which better men than me understand, it's not as efficient as the spring running straight.

Apparently.

HPhillipsmusic

Thanks @Alnico thats really helpful - I’ll order a set of Gotoh springs, does @GluedtoMusic have a shop? 

Alnico

They do.

HERE.

They appear to have gone up to £6 since I last bought them but they're still well worth it and GTM are brilliant to deal with. Always arrived by 1st class post a couple of days later.

HPhillipsmusic

Thanks mate, ordered both variants to be sure. Still keen to find out what any techs think about how the current springs sit above the trem block - the springs sound good and the set up is nice so would love to hear that its fairly normal for some and I can leave it as is. Thanks!

ICBM

JustMe said:

Why isn't "the triangle thing good practice" ? Its the industry standard configuration

Because it forces the two outer springs to rotate slightly on the attachment points as the bridge moves, which can cause them to not return perfectly to position, which then makes the bridge stick out of tune.

It's not industry standard, it's a lazy way of doing it which came about because the two outer ones are more difficult to fit onto the outer claw hooks by hand. Fender always intended them to be straight.

HPhillipsmusic said:

Still keen to find out what any techs think about how the current springs sit above the trem block - the springs sound good and the set up is nice so would love to hear that its fairly normal for some and I can leave it as is. Thanks!

As long as you don't mind not being able to get the cover on it won't be a problem. If it was me I would shorten the ends slightly though, so they sit flush.

HPhillipsmusic

Thank you @ICBM great advice, I'll try shortening the ends of the 'hook'. What you say about the triangle set up makes perfect sense, I saw a video of Paul Waller setting up a trem on Fender Youtube page, he had a terribly lazy approach and got slated in the comments for using a triangle set up - no wonder people get confused!

GluedtoMusic

Many thanks @Alnico @HPhillipsmusic ;

Alnico said:

They appear to have gone up to £6 since I last bought them but they're still well worth it

Yeah unfortunately Gotoh put their prices up May last year, we held out as long as we could but had to increase them at the start of this year.

Alnico

GluedtoMusic said:

Many thanks @Alnico @HPhillipsmusic ;

Alnico said:

They appear to have gone up to £6 since I last bought them but they're still well worth it

Yeah unfortunately Gotoh put their prices up May last year, we held out as long as we could but had to increase them at the start of this year.

It's £1.

As you say it's unavoidable.

No problem at all.

Sassafras

JustMe said:

Why isn't "the triangle thing good practice" ? Its the industry standard configuration

People only think it's the industry standard since the internet came along.

tone1

Yeah, but the triangle way looks cool

https://i.imgur.com/QerRE1q.jpg

ICBM

tone1 said:

Yeah, but the triangle way looks cool

No, it looks like a cheap copy. They usually do it that way in Chinese factories because it's quicker.

JustMe

Tom Anderson, John Suhr, Fender, Ernie Ball and many many others continue to use the "triangle method ".

I'll defer to those instead of armchair experts.

HPhillipsmusic

@JustMe thats cool man! You aren't under attack

Sassafras

The triangle method is perfect if you like the sound of grinding metal, unnecessary friction and poor tuning.

DefaultM

Just hit them in further with a hammer, whats the worst that could happen?