Calling all Fender experts

BeardyAndy

Recently acquired this Stratocaster and the headstock number dates it as 1979 and pretty sure the body matches the neck but how do i know if the pickups and harness are original? Clearly its not an original scratch plate but when i put the pot' number into the Guitar Dater Project it said unknown, and when i dropped the R off the front of the other 6 digit number it came back as 1949-59??

I'd have thought that if i'd been lucky enough to get a guitar with 50s strat components it'd have cloth wires instead of the plastic sheathed birds nest shown below! Although there is a little bit of cloth wire between the 2 tone pots.

I know the 70s guitars weren't as highly regarded as the earlier and later guitars but the soldering on the volume pot is a bloody mess, would they really turn stuff like this out?

richardhomer

Scratch plates in 79 were three-ply B/W/B - so that’s not original. Even in Fender’s darkest day the wiring was ‘much’ neater than that. S9 headstock serials lasted into the early 80s - so no real guide to precise age.

More photos would be helpful in terms of body originality.

ICBM

The pickups, pots and wiring look original for a late-70s Strat. The 'cloth wire' is just a bit of sleeving to stop the cap shorting against the pot. The soldering on the volume pot doesn't look unusually bad for Fender at that time, although it could also have been disturbed when the guard was replaced - the wiring definitely has been anyway, and tidying it up properly will help to reduce noise. The purple link wire on the switch - to make the tone control work on the bridge pickup - and the treble-pass cap/resistor on the volume pot are not original.

If you carefully lift the tone cap you should find a readable date code there - it's the 7-digit number starting with (R)137, the next two digits are the year and the last two the week. Going by the partially visible one on the lower tone pot it could be as early as '75 (43rd week). The one on the volume pot may have its year visible too, even if not the week. The pot code date will be earlier than the production date of the guitar, but anything earlier than '78 and I would say the pots are not original to the guitar if the neck has a 79 serial number.

BeardyAndy

ICBM said:

The pickups, pots and wiring look original for a late-70s Strat. The 'cloth wire' is just a bit of sleeving to stop the cap shorting against the pot. The soldering on the volume pot doesn't look unusually bad for Fender at that time, although it could also have been disturbed when the guard was replaced - the wiring definitely has been anyway, and tidying it up properly will help to reduce noise. The purple link wire on the switch - to make the tone control work on the bridge pickup - and the treble-pass cap/resistor on the volume pot are not original.

If you carefully lift the tone cap you should find a readable date code there - it's the 7-digit number starting with (R)137, the next two digits are the year and the last two the week. Going by the partially visible one on the lower tone pot it could be as early as '75 (43rd week). The one on the volume pot may have its year visible too, even if not the week. The pot code date will be earlier than the production date of the guitar, but anything earlier than '78 and I would say the pots are not original to the guitar if the neck has a 79 serial number.

Hmmm.... Replaced pots me thinks!
The only full number i could read is on the neck tone pot and its R1379512, volume is R13796 solder over last digit and the bridge tone all i can make out are the last 3 digits as 543. Not all bad news, I wont feel so bad putting a nice fresh harness in it now!

Any way of knowing if the pickups are original at least?




A couple more pics.

ICBM

Don’t replace the pots, they’re 90s CTS which are excellent quality.

Yes, the pickups look original I think.

simonhpieman

Love the look of these 70s strats. Looks like a lovely grain on the body.

ICBM

And in a piece of typically CBS-Fender "that will do, who cares?" QC, someone forgot to round the end of the body on the treble side of the neck pocket...

All part of the 70s character .

clarkefan

Headstock photo is great, looks very cool!

BeardyAndy

Found this pic of an original 1980 Strat' and wonder if anyone can tell me what the little yellow fella is with the blue resistor on its back coming out the volume pot on my '79 as it doesn't have one on the '80? 

It also doesn't seem to have one on a '78 that i found on eBay.

guitars4you

BeardyAndy said:

Found this pic of an original 1980 Strat' and wonder if anyone can tell me what the little yellow fella is with the blue resistor on its back coming out the volume pot on my '79 as it doesn't have one on the '80? 

It also doesn't seem to have one on a '78 that i found on eBay.

it is  treble bleed mod that has been added sometime in the past - Not original in the day - but becoming popular now on many Fender models - The idea is to preserve the top end when you roll down the volume pot - Some like it - I don't - I prefer the 'chilled out' softer vibe that you get with out it

BeardyAndy

@guitars4you thanks. I was a bit gutted when I found out the guitar wasnt all original but I'm learning a hell of a lot more because of it!

guitars4you

BeardyAndy said:

@guitars4you thanks. I was a bit gutted when I found out the guitar wasnt all original but I'm learning a hell of a lot more because of it!

It is how you find out, by stripping down and looking at others - Unless you want a pure thoroughbred, I would not get hung up about such an issue on a 70's Strat - I'm not trying to be a 'vintage is best' guitar snob, as in reality I don't believe it anyway - But 70's Fender's are not high priced vintage models in the true sense of the world, despite them now having survived for 40 years - And I don't mean that in a bad way - As such I think you can buy an old guitar with character, yet equally customise as required to get more out of them - Don't know what you paid for your Strat, but if you like the feel and playing experience, then mods like a Callaham trem assembly, good refret and even different pick-ups + wiring will allow you to get more out of the guitar - Mods like the treble bleed are quickly reversible and only cost a £1 or so to do - With a Strat there are loads of cheap mods and changes you can try

Your guitar will never be all original again, so mod/tweak as required - As long as you keep the body/neck original then other tweaks should have little impact on the value - Keep parts you have in case you ever want to put it back

Equally if you like it as it is then all well and good

BeardyAndy

guitars4you said:

BeardyAndy said:

@guitars4you thanks. I was a bit gutted when I found out the guitar wasnt all original but I'm learning a hell of a lot more because of it!

It is how you find out, by stripping down and looking at others - Unless you want a pure thoroughbred, I would not get hung up about such an issue on a 70's Strat - I'm not trying to be a 'vintage is best' guitar snob, as in reality I don't believe it anyway - But 70's Fender's are not high priced vintage models in the true sense of the world, despite them now having survived for 40 years - And I don't mean that in a bad way - As such I think you can buy an old guitar with character, yet equally customise as required to get more out of them - Don't know what you paid for your Strat, but if you like the feel and playing experience, then mods like a Callaham trem assembly, good refret and even different pick-ups + wiring will allow you to get more out of the guitar - Mods like the treble bleed are quickly reversible and only cost a £1 or so to do - With a Strat there are loads of cheap mods and changes you can try

Your guitar will never be all original again, so mod/tweak as required - As long as you keep the body/neck original then other tweaks should have little impact on the value - Keep parts you have in case you ever want to put it back

Equally if you like it as it is then all well and good

Thanks.

It was a gift, belated 40th from my best man, so i'll never sell. He was sold it as an all original '78 and I haven't the heart to tell him but like i said i'll never sell it so no harm no fowl.
I believe he paid £1600 with non original case so strong money but the body and neck are in great condition, bloody sight better than my 40 year old body!

I was really impressed by the harness i put in my Mexican Tele' by James' home of tone so i'll probably treat it to one of those and then when I've the time strip and rebuild the current mess that in there at the mo. Maybe use it as the starting point for a new build!

guitars4you

BeardyAndy said:

Thanks.

It was a gift, belated 40th from my best man, so i'll never sell. He was sold it as an all original '78 and I haven't the heart to tell him but like i said i'll never sell it so no harm no fowl.
I believe he paid £1600 with non original case so strong money but the body and neck are in great condition, bloody sight better than my 40 year old body!

I was really impressed by the harness i put in my Mexican Tele' by James' home of tone so i'll probably treat it to one of those and then when I've the time strip and rebuild the current mess that in there at the mo. Maybe use it as the starting point for a new build!

I would say £1600 is a bit OTT - But whilst not all original it isn't a mess compared with some - I fully appreciate the emotional factor now involved with such a guitar

I see no issues with such a few tweaks to improve the overall playing experience - Very rarely do I see a good re-fret not improve the overall playing experience - So something to consider another day - Nothing wrong with the pots you already have, assuming they are working fine

https://www.sixstringsupplies.co.uk/prewired-harnesses - if looking elsewhere via @sixstringsupplies ;

ICBM

BeardyAndy said:

It was a gift, belated 40th from my best man, so i'll never sell. He was sold it as an all original '78 and I haven't the heart to tell him but like i said i'll never sell it so no harm no fowl.
I believe he paid £1600 with non original case so strong money but the body and neck are in great condition, bloody sight better than my 40 year old body!

That's unfortunate. It should have been obvious from 100 yards away that it wasn't all original because the pickguard was white and not black, and if it came from a dealer I don't believe they didn't know that.

Be thankful that the body hasn't been routed for humbuckers, which is the most common reason for replacing a pickguard on a 70s Strat. It's a shame about the extra screw holes from the new guard, but those could be filled and touched in reasonably well if it bothers you.

BeardyAndy

@ICBM I certainly think we'd have good grounds to take it back if I wanted to. I understand that it was a commission sale so they wouldn't have gone inside to look at the pot dates or the treble bleed mod but it was from a shop we know well, I bought my first guitar from the same guy back in '92 and plenty more between so you'd have thought he'd have been a bit more transparent with my mate and he knew it was for me so you'd think he'd know i'd do some home work!

Not overly worried about the screw holes, in fact I quite fancy the idea of getting a nice nitro relic job done on it one day when funds allow.

guitars4you

BeardyAndy said:

@ICBM I certainly think we'd have good grounds to take it back if I wanted to. I understand that it was a commission sale so they wouldn't have gone inside to look at the pot dates or the treble bleed mod but it was from a shop we know well, I bought my first guitar from the same guy back in '92 and plenty more between so you'd have thought he'd have been a bit more transparent with my mate and he knew it was for me so you'd think he'd know i'd do some home work!

Not overly worried about the screw holes, in fact I quite fancy the idea of getting a nice nitro relic job done on it one day when funds allow.

Don't see why they can't still look inside on a commission sale - I know we can all make mistakes, but their stock or commission stock and they should still stand behind their shop name and evaluate all stock accordingly