Les Paul appreciation

TTBZ

I've been allowed to borrow this beaut for the weekend 

http://i.imgur.com/8Sflze0.jpg

I believe a 2002 Standard weighing in about 8.4lbs which feels nice on the strap. It's just so good to play - effortless sustain on leads and meaty rhythm tones. I even like the neck pickup on it. My own guitar is an SG which in comparison feels and sounds like a plank. Kind of annoying because I thought I was happy with the SG, but then play a particularly nice guitar like this and realise I need a Les Paul in my life again! Not much point to this thread other than to show off the lovely guitar which I'll sadly never own but can enjoy for another day.

gringopig

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TTBZ

It's actually just a thin polishing cloth, but noted!

BowynMadley

TTBZ said:

I've been allowed to borrow this beaut for the weekend 

http://i.imgur.com/8Sflze0.jpg

I believe a 2002 Standard weighing in about 8.4lbs which feels nice on the strap. It's just so good to play - effortless sustain on leads and meaty rhythm tones. I even like the neck pickup on it. My own guitar is an SG which in comparison feels and sounds like a plank. Kind of annoying because I thought I was happy with the SG, but then play a particularly nice guitar like this and realise I need a Les Paul in my life again! Not much point to this thread other than to show off the lovely guitar which I'll sadly never own but can enjoy for another day.

Why not sell your SG and buy a 90s les Paul  Studio or a gigged standard.  I have two 90s studios which I've modded, fettled with and love them both for far less than a grand a piece and I'd happily put either up against a £3k Gibson any day.

JayGee

BowynMadley said:

TTBZ said:

I've been allowed to borrow this beaut for the weekend 

http://i.imgur.com/8Sflze0.jpg

I believe a 2002 Standard weighing in about 8.4lbs which feels nice on the strap. It's just so good to play - effortless sustain on leads and meaty rhythm tones. I even like the neck pickup on it. My own guitar is an SG which in comparison feels and sounds like a plank. Kind of annoying because I thought I was happy with the SG, but then play a particularly nice guitar like this and realise I need a Les Paul in my life again! Not much point to this thread other than to show off the lovely guitar which I'll sadly never own but can enjoy for another day.

Why not sell your SG and buy a 90s les Paul  Studio or a gigged standard.  I have two 90s studios which I've modded, fettled with and love them both for far less than a grand a piece and I'd happily put either up against a £3k Gibson any day.

...or even a Tribute, which costs peanuts (in quality instrument terms) even brand new, and I is lovely straight out of the box!

sweepy

Polishing Cloth ! What is this thing of which you speak ?

roberty

I've been thinking about getting another SG perversely. The black 2019 standards are discounted to £999 at a few places atm. They have the heavier Grover tuners so probably have to try a few

What pickups does your SG have? SGs can sound just as good as any other solid body. Definitely a lot of character. Especially on the G string near the 12th lol

TTBZ

I've thought of selling or trading in the SG many times but as my dad helped pay half towards it as a birthday gift I'd feel bad about that. I love the feel of the SG, it's so comfy and light but it just sounds so plain and dead despite sounding resonant and lively acoustically. I've tried loads of pickups in it, currently an Alegree based off a Bare Knuckle Warpig in an attempt to beef it up a bit to LP levels. The fatness is basically there but its missing the complexity, sustain and "creaminess" for lack of a better word.

It's like the Les Paul has a built in compression which makes everything that bit more effortless and nice to play. The lack of a forearm contour is the only thing I miss about the SG, I've got used to how the SG just gets out of the way and the upper edge on an LP really digs into the arm when playing stood up.

ICBM

TTBZ said:

I've thought of selling or trading in the SG many times but as my dad helped pay half towards it as a birthday gift I'd feel bad about that. I love the feel of the SG, it's so comfy and light but it just sounds so plain despite sounding resonant and lively acoustically. I've tried loads of pickups in it, currently an Alegree based off a Bare Knuckle Warpig in an attempt to beef it up a bit to LP levels. The fatness is basically there but its missing the complexity, sustain and "creaminess" for lack of a better word.

It's like the Les Paul has a built in compression which makes everything that bit more effortless and nice to play. The lack of a forearm contour is the only thing I miss about the SG.

What pots does it have? If it’s got the modern Gibson 300K volumes I always find they kill the life in the tone somehow, even with better pickups. If it sounds good unplugged but bad plugged in it’s something to do with the electrics - either the pots or you haven’t found the right pickups yet.

Or use a compressor pedal set very subtly...

HandwrittenHero

TTBZ said:

I've thought of selling or trading in the SG many times but as my dad helped pay half towards it as a birthday gift I'd feel bad about that. I love the feel of the SG, it's so comfy and light but it just sounds so plain despite sounding resonant and lively acoustically. I've tried loads of pickups in it, currently an Alegree based off a Bare Knuckle Warpig in an attempt to beef it up a bit to LP levels. The fatness is basically there but its missing the complexity, sustain and "creaminess" for lack of a better word.

It's like the Les Paul has a built in compression which makes everything that bit more effortless and nice to play. The lack of a forearm contour is the only thing I miss about the SG.

Have you looked into the wiring and pots as well? Can be a difference maker in terms of giving tonal options and letting as much of the character through.

I'd also be tempted to go the other way on pickups and something more vintage minded - towards Alnico 2 or 3 and lower wind. Warpig looks to be Alnico 5 and high output. So long as that suits your playstyle and musical tastes obviously - if you're wanting to play high gain then you might be a bit boxed in (although Gary Moore seemed to have no issues getting a decent tone from vintage minded kit to be fair)

If you like the feel of the SG and it means something to you, as well as it having something unplugged, I'd be tempted to keep exploring rather than selling up. It might not end up exactly Les Paul (because the sheer chunk of mahogany and the maple top do matter) but might be able to freshen it up and get something a bit more inspiring out of it.

TTBZ

I play a lot of heavy stoner rock and metal type stuff so the Warpig does in theory suit. It sounds good for classic rock type stuff too, it's not limited to metal. The pots are CTS 500K, I re wired it all years ago when I first started looking at pickups to replace the stock 490r/498t. The 490r was actually fine and I shouldn't have sold it, it's bridge pickups I'm struggling with.

Must admit I've not gone the other way with very low output, the lowest I've gone is Axesrus Purist alnico 4 around 9k which was the best I'd tried til the Warpig, but in comparison to the WP it's very thin and twangy. Wondering if Alnico 2 (57 classics?) would be worth a shot. So far I've tried in the bridge:

Stock pickups

Bare Knuckle Mule
Bare Knuckle Pig 90
SD Invader
SD Custom Custom/Custom 5
Bare Knuckle Black Dog
Axesrus Purist
Alegree take on the Warpig (best so far I think)

I do actually remember quite liking the BK Black Dog but ended up putting it in my old Les Paul for some reason.

ICBM

If you want a slightly compressed, thicker tone you might actually be better with a higher-output Alnico II pickup like a Duncan Custom Custom, or maybe even a ceramic. Alnico V always sounds brighter and clearer to me - which is good if you want higher output with a more vintage tone, but it doesn’t sound like you do...

If you don’t mind how it looks, try a Duncan Invader .

tony99

I notice quite a difference between the humbuckers on my LP junior special (2012) and those on my LP traditional (2010)

I thought they'd both be of a similar ilk but guess not, would anyone know what types of pickups are as standard in both of these ?

TTBZ

Sorry I think I updated my post whilst you were typing that. Already tried those and for one reason or another they didn't stay for long!

I've not tried many ceramics though, may look out for a cheap 500T. Always been put off ceramic as I don't like the "harsh" or aggressive thrash type tones, I just like big full and fat sounds with clarity. Do a lot of single string riffing so thin tones can sound extra thin for that.

To be honest I wonder if I'm just trying to make the SG something it's not.

TTBZ

ICBM said:

Or use a compressor pedal set very subtly...

I'm thinking this is the cheapest and easiest course of action for me right now! Either a Mooer yellow compressor or a Klon style always on boost.

I think I will inevitably get another LP at some point - either a Studio or 50s tribute. Had so much fun playing this one!

OilCityPickups

TTBZ said:

Sorry I think I updated my post whilst you were typing that. Already tried those and for one reason or another they didn't stay for long!

I've not tried many ceramics though, may look out for a cheap 500T. Always been put off ceramic as I don't like the "harsh" or aggressive thrash type tones, I just like big full and fat sounds with clarity. Do a lot of single string riffing so thin tones can sound extra thin for that.

To be honest I wonder if I'm just trying to make the SG something it's not.

Ceramic pickups don't have to be harsh. I'm referencing early DiMarzio Super Distortions here: a suitably powerful but very fat and quite smooth pickup that was almost PAF like in it's response. 

ICBM

OilCityPickups said:

Ceramic pickups don't have to be harsh. I'm referencing early DiMarzio Super Distortions here: a suitably powerful but very fat and quite smooth pickup that was almost PAF like in it's response. 

Invaders are not harsh either - in fact most people would describe them as muddy, if anything. Nor are Rickenbacker High-Gains and HB1s...

I'm pretty sure the reputation of ceramic magnets for being harsh comes from the combination of them with cheap, under (and loosely) wound far-east pickups from the 70s and 80s.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

OilCityPickups said:

Ceramic pickups don't have to be harsh. I'm referencing early DiMarzio Super Distortions here: a suitably powerful but very fat and quite smooth pickup that was almost PAF like in it's response. 

Invaders are not harsh either - in fact most people would describe them as muddy, if anything. Nor are Rickenbacker High-Gains and HB1s...

I'm pretty sure the reputation of ceramic magnets for being harsh comes from the combination of them with cheap, under (and loosely) wound far-east pickups from the 70s and 80s.

Exactly right: hotter magnets are more treble happy than lower power ones ... so coupling a hot magnet with a hotter wind helps to restore the top end smoothness. Of course you can go too hot on the winding ... which leads to muddy response

TTBZ

Yeah I think that's just a weird preconception I have in my head about ceramic, one of them wrong internet "facts". Funnily enough someone did suggest trying a Super Distortion in my guitar a long time ago.

andy_k

The Les Paul rabbit hole, is just the opening to a never ending labyrinth of possibilities.
I popped my head out and wondered what the SG thing was all about, and saw that was just another opening to the labyrinth next door.
The pickup corridor has doors that lead into both these places, plus stratland, which is a fork in the road with teleland.
One day, I will draw a map to help guide people, its a lifetime of experience.
YMMV
cheers
andy k

roberty

OilCityPickups said:

TTBZ said:

Sorry I think I updated my post whilst you were typing that. Already tried those and for one reason or another they didn't stay for long!

I've not tried many ceramics though, may look out for a cheap 500T. Always been put off ceramic as I don't like the "harsh" or aggressive thrash type tones, I just like big full and fat sounds with clarity. Do a lot of single string riffing so thin tones can sound extra thin for that.

To be honest I wonder if I'm just trying to make the SG something it's not.

Ceramic pickups don't have to be harsh. I'm referencing early DiMarzio Super Distortions here: a suitably powerful but very fat and quite smooth pickup that was almost PAF like in it's response. 

Agreed, my 70s DiMarzio Super Distortion sounds like a fat PAF, very vintage voiced and also high output