A Terrific Video about CAGED

Defender

It explains it so well and shows how to write solos using it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qp26KcDrGw

thegummy

Good video, I like the guy, will subscribe to him.

Something I often wonder is why guitar seems to focus so much on pentatonic scales when keyboard instruments don't. I don't know about other instruments, I would take a guess that they don't. So why guitar?

Philly_Q

From the perspective of a mug who's been playing a very long time but never actually learned very much, I really enjoyed that. 

He's planned it out very well and it's impressive how it's all integrated - the fretboard diagrams, his playing and how he's able to talk through it without messing up!

For many people on here this is probably baby stuff, easy as falling off a log.  For me, I sort of half-know most of what he's talking about, but in a very confused way.  I haven't seen it so clearly explained before.

Thanks for posting that.

kswilson89

thegummy said:

Good video, I like the guy, will subscribe to him.

Something I often wonder is why guitar seems to focus so much on pentatonic scales when keyboard instruments don't. I don't know about other instruments, I would take a guess that they don't. So why guitar?

I assume it's due to the fact that pentatonic scales work pretty well over dominant 7 and power chords, which a lot of guitar-centric blues/rock music is based on.

King85

Nice find! He's only got a few videos on at the moment but I've found them useful and very informative.

Bigsby

That's got to be one of the best guitar instruction videos I've seen. He's obviously spent time thinking about what he wants to say, how to say it, and how to make it clear in the video. Really well shot and edited. And there was no time wasted too - a rarity on YouTube these days.

He's probably a really good teacher too... 

shrinkwrap

Yep thanks for posting that - really well thought out and put together - not seen that effort before on things like his fixed 'camera guitar' and the fret note spots.

Dan_Halen

kswilson89 said:

thegummy said:

Good video, I like the guy, will subscribe to him.

Something I often wonder is why guitar seems to focus so much on pentatonic scales when keyboard instruments don't. I don't know about other instruments, I would take a guess that they don't. So why guitar?

I assume it's due to the fact that pentatonic scales work pretty well over dominant 7 and power chords, which a lot of guitar-centric blues/rock music is based on.

Guitar scales are often taught in shapes and patterns because there are multiple ways to play the same scale on a guitar. The basic pentatonic boxes, moving between the boxes to extend the scale, 3 notes per string, just using 1 string and so on. As there are loads of ways to play the same thing so it makes sense to teach some basic patterns that can be moved around the neck as a starting point.

The reason you use the pentatonic specifically? Only 5 notes and (usually) they all fit the song. If you're playing a basic 3 chord song in C maj (e.g. C, F and G maj chords), a C maj pentatonic will fit over the whole tune. Might sound a bit dull, but will work fine. This makes it a great starting place to learn to improvise from. Could you play a C maj scale instead? Yes, but 1. more notes so a more complicated pattern to learn and 2. unlike the pentatonic, not all notes in the major scale will work over all chords in that key.

Once comfortable playing a C pentatonic over the whole C, F and G tune, you can expand and begin to play F and G pentatonics over the respective chords. Same basic shapes, no *wrong* notes, a great way to begin to learn to improvise and move with the changes.

So... if you nail the 5 basic pentatonic boxes you can pretty much play over anything, in any key, anywhere on the neck and follow the changes hence it being a popular way to teach and learn.

Other instruments do use pentatonics as a way to teach basic improvising but possibly spend less time on it because of the linear way they play scales. On sax, for example, there's only 1 way to play a C maj pentatonic scale. Learn that 1 shape and that's it. Again, on guitar, there are numerous ways. This is possibly why guitarists seem to live in pentatonic world more so than other instruments - it simply takes longer to learn the many ways of doing the same thing.

A pretty generalised summary but that's my interpretation as someone who plays sax and guitar.

thegummy

That explanation is basically the same as what my guess would be.

Keyboard and other instruments are very much taught from a classical angle. I'd imagine classical guitar lessons focus as little on pentatonic scales as keyboard.

But with rock and blues music it wasn't the same formal education, it was just learning how to play be music they wanted to play. Pentatonic is easy because it takes out ambiguous notes and has fewer notes to learn so would be appealing to someone who just wanted to play, not train for years.

So when rock guitar lessons became more formal they focused on what was being learned already.

I'd personally discourage seeing so much importance in pentatonic scales as I think a lot of people just stay there in an easy comfort zone where everything can sound bland.

Philly_Q

I must admit after watching that yesterday, later in the day I tried to do the thing of moving the C-A-G-E-D shapes along the fretboard and I couldn't remember it at all.  Oh well. Maybe I should download his pdfs.

Danny1969

I can never understand why the caged system is so popular as it seems to make something so simple more complicated  to my way of thinking. For me it was as simple as 

A: learn where all the notes are on the neck

B: learn what intervals between notes build scales, triads,  arpeggios etc

c: make is sound more interesting by bending, sliding, use of harmonics, double stops etc

The first thing I do when teaching people who can play a bit is steer them away from caged and pentatonic shapes because I want them to think of the notes when they play, not the shapes. 
That's not to say the good ol pent isn't useful, it is ....  but the reason a lot of players sound samey is in my view due to playing shapes rather then thinking about how a given note will sound over the song behind it. 

Plus thinking of notes, scales and intervals translates to any instrument 

thegummy

Danny1969 said:

I can never understand why the caged system is so popular as it seems to make something so simple more complicated  to my way of thinking. For me it was as simple as 

A: learn where all the notes are on the neck

B: learn what intervals between notes build scales, triads,  arpeggios etc

c: make is sound more interesting by bending, sliding, use of harmonics, double stops etc

The first thing I do when teaching people who can play a bit is steer them away from caged and pentatonic shapes because I want them to think of the notes when they play, not the shapes. 
That's not to say the good ol pent isn't useful, it is ....  but the reason a lot of players sound samey is in my view due to playing shapes rather then thinking about how a given note will sound over the song behind it. 

Plus thinking of notes, scales and intervals translates to any instrument 

I think what you say is a very good point.

A lot of guitar solos are basically just snippets of scale exercises.

How about this - come up with the solo using a keyboard and then play it on guitar. Even better, since keyboards have their own habitual patterns, use one of those midi controllers where it just has loads of identical pads or buttons and write the solo on that.

Roland

Danny1969 said:

I can never understand why the caged system is so popular as it seems to make something so simple more complicated  to my way of thinking. For me it was as simple as 

A: learn where all the notes are on the neck

B: learn what intervals between notes build scales, triads,  arpeggios etc

c: make is sound more interesting by bending, sliding, use of harmonics, double stops etc

Personally I like CAGED. I find it much more useful than modes. Like all good ideas it can be overstretched. Chord shapes are a useful mechanism for steps A and B. Once it gets extended into a set of mechanical rules, which is a trap that many would-be teachers fall into, it loses its usefulness. 

King85

Danny1969 said:

snip

I think it's just horses for courses really. What you may find an easy method of learning I may not and so forth.

mrkb

King85 said:

Danny1969 said:

snip

I think it's just horses for courses really. What you may find an easy method of learning I may not and so forth.

I agree, there’s no point knowing the note names unless you’re aware of how they relate to the tonic, and the CAGED system nicely ties the chords and scale intervals together.

Rocker

Recently I asked a question about the reason for learning all the fretboard notes.  The video the OP kindly posted is the answer to my question.  Thanks @Defender.

Some might find the info in the video to be simple stuff, not so for me.  I intend to take it easy, one step at a time.  With the hope that one day I will know what I am doing when playing guitar.

TimmyO

I wonder if Hess will set his flying monkeys on him? 

EricTheWeary

I guess it's about an even steps approach. There might be alternatives to following CAGED through but as long as you follow it through otherwise you end up with the mish mash that so many of us have.
I thought it was a clear video and took me about as far with CAGED as I've ever got - understanding the idea but not following it up with a lot of effort. But for the right person there is hours, days, weeks of learning in there.    

viz

Roland said:

Danny1969 said:

I can never understand why the caged system is so popular as it seems to make something so simple more complicated  to my way of thinking. For me it was as simple as 

A: learn where all the notes are on the neck

B: learn what intervals between notes build scales, triads,  arpeggios etc

c: make is sound more interesting by bending, sliding, use of harmonics, double stops etc

Personally I like CAGED. I find it much more useful than modes. Like all good ideas it can be overstretched. Chord shapes are a useful mechanism for steps A and B. Once it gets extended into a set of mechanical rules, which is a trap that many would-be teachers fall into, it loses its usefulness. 

I know what you mean. For me, CAGED is a method that helps us improve how we play the guitar - it’s a tool for technique; modes is a theoretical construct that helps us think about how music and understand how and why it sounds how it does - they both have their uses.

I personally have never used CAGED but that’s probably because I bypassed it in my own development as a player. If I were a guitar teacher I’d seriously look into it as a tool to help practise technique; but not to the exclusion of modes, and certainly not to the exclusion of creating music away from the comfortable guitar shapes. 

sev112

Two things that I only noticed much later which are really quite relevant to the concept but which are hugely coincidental 

1) CAGED is in tonal alphabetical sequence/ order (albeit backwards) 

2) it makes a word 

There aren’t many words in alphabetical order.  and just imagine that if whoever came before Beethoven and came up with music theory and named the notes, had used T U V W X Y Z instead , then the concept of CAGED would not work. 

thegummy

Not sure if anyone will know what I mean, or be with me on this, but tutorials on "how to solo" seem to be more about how to not sound terrible.

I.e. If they memorize certain shapes and patterns they can jump to places on the fret board that they won't know what will sound like in advance but at least will be in key.

Isn't it better to hear the melody in your head that you actually want that isn't limited by technical ability and doesn't rely on serendipity?