There. I’ve said it.

ICBM

Bridgehouse said:

To be fair, if he did an updated copy of the original Ommadawn album cover he’d sell absolutely none of them

Not sure about that, he looks pretty good for his age!

The funny thing about that cover is that I know a chap who looked almost exactly like he did on it - although he's also cut his hair in the last few years so he doesn't as much any more... and you wouldn't mistake him for the 'now' Oldfield.

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

Bridgehouse said:

To be fair, if he did an updated copy of the original Ommadawn album cover he’d sell absolutely none of them

Not sure about that, he looks pretty good for his age!

The funny thing about that cover is that I know a chap who looked almost exactly like he did on it - although he's also cut his hair in the last few years so he doesn't as much any more... and you wouldn't mistake him for the 'now' Oldfield.

Presumably the Bahamas sun is doing his complexion the world of good

Def worth listening to the new one tho. You might think it’s “average” but it’s definitely not “Man on the Rocks”

Bridgehouse

guitars4you said:

I read the whole OP Mark and nothing to really disagree with, as an overview

Key phrase to me was - I’m actually getting quite tired of the sheer quantity of blues-y or technique oriented content that seems to dominate the guitar world. It doesn’t do anything for me emotionally.

I can't disagree with this - Yet it is my fall back to area when I'm playing, for whatever reason that might be - And yes I do know why this is the case - For me, as a home based player these days, playing pentatonic based licks is just that - I doodle - And via practising I've probably just become a better doodler - Sometimes it creates a 'wow what was that moment' when I accidentally play something new, but then I can't find it again - Very little reason to learn to improvise when I'm playing on my own - No specific result is achieved - As a result I should learn to play tunes

At times I do learn a 'tune' - Be it The Good The bad and The Ugly theme tune, or whatever - Then play around with it to make it my own and even improvise as required - Even Slash played a version of The Godfather theme tune - I don't want to make it sound 'sterile' or predictable like H Marvin, even though it probably is - The point is that it is a recognised tune and you need to learn the whole tune from start to finish

I think many guitar players know 100 riffs, but probably can't play All Right Now, or similar, from the start to end

With that in mind, then learning to play say In Dulci Jubilo is something I could/should look into - 100's of other options to look at,  be it M Oldfield, or otherwise - Even play an instrumental version of a vocal song - I sometimes wonder which guitarist could have played a superb instrumental of Whitney Houston's I will always love you - With her vibrato etc, then I feel G Moore could have done a great version based on his Still Got The Blues Style

I was chatting with someone the other day about Hank and Apache - I've never learnt it - I don't want to play it and sound like Hank - But part of me says that if I can't play it from start to finish then I can't consider that I've accomplished a lot as a guitar player - So maybe I should learn it but add my touch to it

I won't say Mike Oldfield is the greatest, or disagree - But what I will say is he plays a tune and ref other comments above, I think I would be better learning to play tunes - Think Andy Timmons version of Bohemian Rhapsody - Even if you can't play the full technical version as per Andy you can adapt as required

I've often said that if you went to a party, or sat around a camp fire, can you play a song that others will know, so as to entertain, as against playing endless blues licks - I know most/many sax and violin plays could, as this is how they are taught from day one 

I have not got the ability to play a pure complex virtuoso song in the style of T Emmanuel, or Martin Taylor - But like Mike Oldfield I should learn to play tunes

I like you thought process - Not sure if I've understood it in the way you wanted me to - But my thought pattern is to play tunes and stop doodling

Mark - wanted to come back to this one with a response!

For me, Mike O is the king of a good hook. Some say he’s only got one. It started with Tubular Bells and gets trotted out in everything he does. 

I see it it a bit differently. For me, it feels like he had a musical idea way back when and it first came out in Tubular Bells. But rather than rehashing it, he’s took that musical idea and explored looking at it from different angles - stylistically, tonally, rhythmically, and ultimately he’s orchestrated it (Music of the Spheres).

You’ve not missed my point at all in your post - I agree with you. If you look at some of his more accomplished works, he takes a musical idea and plays with it - shapes and moulds it, and has a go at presenting it in a number of ways. 

I wonder often, as guitarists and musicians generally if we would benefit from this approach. When noodling, and hearing something that sounds good - it’s worth recording it quickly on your phone or something, then taking that idea and trying to present it in a number of ways, styles, formats etc. It’s hard at first but it really opens up the brain to thinking about why something sounds good to us, rather than just tying to copy a style or a specific phrase. 

I think that’s my issue with the blues-y technical thing - apart from the fact it sounds very same-y to me, it doesn’t unleash the creative approach as much and ultimately it just feels like a load of players trying to pay homage to something. 

Music moves on. It develops and changes - that’s what keeps it fresh and challenging - it’s what makes us stop in our tracks and go “oh, that’s different!” 

There’s not enough of that about for me. Mike O tries to do this time after time. Sometimes it doesn’t work at all and sounds like tosh. Sometimes I think he’s a genius. On balance, the latter happens more often than the former when I listen to his stuff

Funkfingers

Bridgehouse said:

… oft criticised and oft derided …

For me, Oldfield became uncool in the following sequence:
1) Haircut and chin scrape
2) Gibson L6
3) Incantations
4) Public support for the Conservative & Unionist party

p90fool

To me he's like an instrumental Kate Bush.

A bit outside the mainstream with their own style, but if you can't be arsed to really get into it it all sounds the same and vaguely unsatisfying. 

It's all a bit "English" if you know what I mean?

I know it's only personal taste, but I find music I 'almost' like more annoying than music I really don't like.

Alnico

Bridgehouse said:

...

Oh, and ask @Alnico why “Sailor’s Hornpipe” has s something everyone should learn to play.

It was talked about last year to run this as a challenge at Jam sessions and other related get-togethers.

'The Hornpipe Challenge'

I, like probably many others, can play this song however I can only get through the first one or two "rounds" before the sheer speed of it loses me and I start dropping notes.

How far through the song can you get?

That was the challenge and as far as I can remember it was going to involve a backing track with MO's guitar removed so that each contestant could step up and play in Mike Oldfield's place. The winner would be the person who got all the way to the end and beat the challenge or if no one did it, the person who got the furthest through the song using a time stamp.

I don't think we ever really took it further than the planning stage although it's not terribly difficult to actually put in place but in the name of pushing yourself to do something different and learn a song that will eventually annoy the tits off you and everyone around you, here it is.

Can you play right through to the end of 'The Sailors Hornpipe' at speed, without dropping any significant amount of notes so that you'd be happy with it as a live performance.
If not, how far though the track can you get?

It's a useful thing to use the time stamp because any progress you make over time is measured easily and goals can bet set using the time stamp of the next "round" or look at it as "levels" as you would in a video game if that spins your wheels.

There may well be a backing track out there already or maybe one of our resident studio gurus can make one but even just playing along with the record, you'll know if you've got it right just as much as you'll really know it if you get it wrong.

Try it.

It's in G and it's as addictive as it is annoying.

Alnico

Bridgehouse

@Alnico - that’s spot on as I remember the challenge.

I remember us sniggering and saying it wasn’t that much of a challenge until you actually sit down and listen to the piece and what MO plays.. at which point you then realise it’s a game of accuracy, endurance, and sheer bloodymindedness

Kilgore

proggy said:

I love Mike Oldfield and Steve Howe and I think Bill Nelson deserves a mention here.

I've only recently got into Bill Nelson. My first thought was "how have I missed this guy?"

57Deluxe

many of MO's licks only playable if you adopt his classical #Apoyando# picking style

Funkfingers

Also, made easier if you record some sections with the multi-track tape at half speed.

Alnico

Bridgehouse said:

@Alnico - that’s spot on as I remember the challenge.

I remember us sniggering and saying it wasn’t that much of a challenge until you actually sit down and listen to the piece and what MO plays.. at which point you then realise it’s a game of accuracy, endurance, and sheer bloodymindedness

It's worth talking about again and looking at the backing track first.

If we get a decent backing track then it's a worthwhile exercise and a bit of fun whenever it's rolled out.

There's 3 or 4 different places on the neck where you can play this (probably more) and each one has it's own pros and cons.

The really interesting thing is seeing how different players approach it and where they choose to play it, what fingering patterns / scale shapes they use. Different strings and places on the neck also give different tonal qualities and are better or worse for hammer on and pull off etc.

I knew a guy who played this totally clean with a squishy compressor because it suited how he played it and another guy who played it with a fair amount of gain.

I think the only rule is that you play the melody properly without dropping notes and at the correct, increasing tempo.

How it actually sounds I think should be left open to interpretation for each player and allow that to be their unique approach to it.

guitars4you

Alnico said:

There's 3 or 4 different places on the neck where you can play this (probably more) and each one has it's own pros and cons.

I think the only rule is that you play the melody properly without dropping notes and at the correct, increasing tempo.

How it actually sounds I think should be left open to interpretation for each player and allow that to be their unique approach to it.

Mark - did you start of with a tab, by ear or the old traditional sheet music

historyisjunk

axisus said:

I think that underrated is an often misused word within the world of guitar. A better term would be under-appreciated.

Some guitarists are ALWAYS rated very highly, they are just not that well know (Phil Keaggy or Jimmy Herring to name a couple).

Great post, I think that's a really good distinction. Also, very interesting what @Grunfeld said about Dave Gilmour,  I didn't know that, I thought he was always up there. Maybe at the time the favourites were people like John McLaughlin, Al Dimeola. I have zero understanding of technique so these things are just down to taste judgements for me & completely subjective. I mean my judgements- other people probably can distinguish levels of ability/musicality.

Danielsguitars

poopot said:

Fuck off with your Nile Rodgers, I'm going to ban his name in my workshop and you'll follow if you keep up this nonsense 

Grunfeld

Here we go, found it.  It's someone playing a cover of a bit of "Ommadawn pt.2"

What I love about it is that it's not a perfect rendition but I know it's way better than anything I could play.  And yet you can see and hear that the piece is essentially so simple. 

This, for me, is what Oldfield does incredibly well:  it is that mixture of apparent simplicity yet "effortless" accuracy. 

historyisjunk said:

Also... what @Grunfeld said about Dave Gilmour,  I didn't know that, I thought he was always up there. Maybe at the time the favourites were people like John McLaughlin, Al Dimeola.

Nope, he really wasn't.  At least not in the circles I mixed in and I used to read Sounds, NME, and Melody Maker at the time too and they didn't mention him as a player.  It must have been about the time of "Wish You Were Here" or just before perhaps.  The people considered players were Hendrix (who was very much in people's memories), Page, Beck, Blackmore, and over the pond the likes of Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Free Bird" was accepted as what good players did.  So Gilmour was "too slow" to be good.  That was why I'm pretty sure he didn't get a look in till the zeitgeist changed and playing didn't have to be showy peacock-playing to get noticed as good.  Once that happened Gilmour was noticed.

Alnico

guitars4you said:

Alnico said:

There's 3 or 4 different places on the neck where you can play this (probably more) and each one has it's own pros and cons.

I think the only rule is that you play the melody properly without dropping notes and at the correct, increasing tempo.

How it actually sounds I think should be left open to interpretation for each player and allow that to be their unique approach to it.

Mark - did you start of with a tab, by ear or the old traditional sheet music

I’ve known how to play it since the 80’s when I learned it by ear and I was shown it note by note but I’ve since used tab to make sure I had it right. 

I’ve just tried to play it and realised how long it’s been since I last tried. 
Got some work to do now !

Alnico

Danielsguitars said:

poopot said:

Fuck off with your Nile Rodgers, I'm going to ban his name in my workshop and you'll follow if you keep up this nonsense 

Thank you !

AuldReekie

Kilgore said:

proggy said:

I love Mike Oldfield and Steve Howe and I think Bill Nelson deserves a mention here.

I've only recently got into Bill Nelson. My first thought was "how have I missed this guy?"

+1 for Bill Nelson.  The guy is unique and cannot be classified under any particular genre of guitar as he has covered so much ground

guitars4you

Alnico said:

guitars4you said:

Alnico said:

There's 3 or 4 different places on the neck where you can play this (probably more) and each one has it's own pros and cons.

I think the only rule is that you play the melody properly without dropping notes and at the correct, increasing tempo.

How it actually sounds I think should be left open to interpretation for each player and allow that to be their unique approach to it.

Mark - did you start of with a tab, by ear or the old traditional sheet music

I’ve known how to play it since the 80’s when I learned it by ear and I was shown it note by note but I’ve since used tab to make sure I had it right. 

I’ve just tried to play it and realised how long it’s been since I last tried. 
Got some work to do now !

thanks Mark - just found a tab + dots for it - Will start it now - slowly then build up