How much a Les Paul should cost?

Danny1969

Guitars have very small profit margins compared to pedals. Something like a Tubescreamer cost less than £10 to build in parts and labour ...... an MRX Microamp about £8 

But then the above have small margins compared to top clothing brands and trainers made in China and sold on brand alone

soma1975

Meh, garlic bread costs about 2p to make and costs about £4 in a restaurant. 

JerkMoans

Coincidentally an email from Peach just popped in advertising the new Gibson range: LP Standards for £1999

https://www.peachguitars.com/brands/gibson-are-back/

bacchanalian

Lovely 50's Goldtop.
Looking forward to more information on these

Jez6345789

History has shown Henry J got his panties bunched right up his arse with debt and servicing that debt. 

Looking at some of the 2019 models and pricing and now seeing nice looking juniors for under 1200 quid and Les Paul standards at under 2k think JC is starting to ring the changes. It will take time but he seems to be knocking over a lot of peoples objections to what the brand had become.

With stuff like decent lighting and improving ventilation etc so people can actually see the flaws, he is starting to address the quality issues. Change is never easy with a big workforce but I think most of the people in Gibson will have little loyalty to the petty micromanaged Henry J years.

thegummy

gregm said:

If you charge very little for something people see it that way, Gibson is a premium brand but I do personally think if you want to decide the perceived market value of a product on materials then quality, support and availability should also be big factors? Gibson are one of the few brands in history that can have so many periods of shoddy workmanship and still be seen in this way!

There is a lot of truth to that, perhaps unfortunately.

I think a big thing in general is that most players either don't have the expertise, or at least aren't confident that we do, to inspect and play a guitar and be certain of its quality.

So there will often be doubts based on the price such as "there must be a reason it's so cheap" or that the 3000 quid guitar does have genuinely more to offer than a 1000 quid one, we just don't have the ability to tell what it is.

Fifty9

Good pricing, shame they mention allowing the wood to breathe...

gordiji

soma1975 said:

Meh, garlic bread costs about 2p to make and costs about £4 in a restaurant. 

Worst of all it's often wrongly made with butter rather than olive oil

ESBlonde

In the 50s people sprayed nitro without PPE on minimum wage, today the equipment has to be 'safe' and the process even safer. All at an overhead cost rather than a human one. Likewise chrome plating, the heavy metals in the water treatment are very managed as opposed to those far off days of sunshine. Now these might amortise as small sums per guitar, but they are significant when all is taken into account.

Of course brand snobbery has become a huge thing over the last 30 years where so many people have the ability to afford aspirational goods.

Boromedic

My Gibson LP Standard was £1500ish in 1999. That's apparently equivalent to £1870 now. So a new one for £2k isn't that bad in comparison if I'm honest, especially considering the £ to USD rate at present. At the end of the day if you want one you'll buy one, being overpriced or not is the decision of the person looking to buy. 

thegummy

gordiji said:

soma1975 said:

Meh, garlic bread costs about 2p to make and costs about £4 in a restaurant. 

Worst of all it's often wrongly made with butter rather than olive oil

Butter is so much better.

Never heard anyone compliment a guitar by saying it plays like olive oil.

Garthy

Blaendulais said:

How musch more do you think a Porsche costs to make than a VW? Is that reflected in the price of a Porsche? No.  Pricing has very little to do with production costs.  Rolexes cost sweet FA to make but are massively expensive.

In market uncertainty increasing price is often a natural and effective solution to increase sales.

Actually Porsche were very close to going bust in 1995 and struggled to sell their cars for barely more than the cost to make them. It’s the reason the original Boxster and 996 share the entire front half, they couldn’t afford to differentiate the models more until 2003. At the time my Golf GTI cost £17k and a Boxster was £35k.

Honda made a loss on every S2000 and NSX.

Garthy

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

I don't think I know anyone on this forum personally (you may know many, so may have more insight) but I think it may be a bit presumptuous to guess peoples financial situations. I'd have thought we might all be entitle to an opinion, unless I'm missing something?

Just as I am entitled to my opinion. And my opinion, after seeing countless people commenting on Gibson posts, is that when they start listing sub £1000 alternatives usually spells out that they couldn’t bring themselves to part with £2500 for a Gibson. I am not taking a dig at these people but this is what I have observed. They would rather buy 3 cheaper alternatives than buy the real thing. I don’t think anything is overpriced, if theyre selling them then the market place has clearly spoken. 

If that was the case there wouldn’t be sales, blow outs and Black Friday. 

crunchman

Garthy said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

SlopeSoarer said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

“Overpriced” is a term coined (no pun intended) by people who are too cheap in the first place to buy one. As harsh as it sounds it’s something many people say who then list a bunch of cheaper brands they prefer because their finances don’t allow them to make a purchase. 

Interesting: )

It’s more annoyingly sad that people feel the need to stop and comment that something is “overpriced” rather than just moving on. Nothing like announcing to everyone that you can’t afford it

I don't think I know anyone on this forum personally (you may know many, so may have more insight) but I think it may be a bit presumptuous to guess peoples financial situations. I'd have thought we might all be entitle to an opinion, unless I'm missing something?

Just as I am entitled to my opinion. And my opinion, after seeing countless people commenting on Gibson posts, is that when they start listing sub £1000 alternatives usually spells out that they couldn’t bring themselves to part with £2500 for a Gibson. I am not taking a dig at these people but this is what I have observed. They would rather buy 3 cheaper alternatives than buy the real thing. I don’t think anything is overpriced, if theyre selling them then the market place has clearly spoken. 

If that was the case there wouldn’t be sales, blow outs and Black Friday. 

With the latest Les Paul Standards seeming to be for sale at £1999, and the talk we are hearing about the end of model years, then there won't be the blowouts and Black Friday stuff going forwards.

JDE

Aren’t Black Fridays and the like are more for the retailer than the manufacturer? I thought it was about cutting inventory to make way for Xmas stock or whatever? 
Fwiw, I never understood why anyone apart from the mega firms like Tesco or box shifters like Amazon participate in Black Friday. If the retail margins are so low on most consumer items, and with guitars I think it’s a fair bet they are, what’s the point of flogging a £2k guitar to make £100 margin? 

guitars4you

JDE said:

Aren’t Black Fridays and the like are more for the retailer than the manufacturer? I thought it was about cutting inventory to make way for Xmas stock or whatever? 
Fwiw, I never understood why anyone apart from the mega firms like Tesco or box shifters like Amazon participate in Black Friday. If the retail margins are so low on most consumer items, and with guitars I think it’s a fair bet they are, what’s the point of flogging a £2k guitar to make £100 margin? 

going of tangent here - But Good Friday can suit both the dealer and manufacturer/distributor - Many big dealers now buy in 'old stock' in bulk, in order to have a GF promo - Initially GF was about the dealer clearing out old/excess stock, but the parameter has changed

JDE

@guitars4you ah I see. I assumed there had to have been some mutual benefit! Thanks for the clarification.

designerseye88

Black Friday is also good for cashflow. Cash is King 

guitars4you

designerseye88 said:

Black Friday is also good for cashflow. Cash is King 

that supports the original format of clearing out all/excess stock - Yes agree cash is king - You can run a business without profit, for a while - You can't run a business without cash

jonnyburgo

We all have different sets of values, if you want a £4000 guitar and it makes you happy then go for it. Personally I could only justify that as a working musician which I am not, it would feel wasted on a guy that practices a couple of hours a week like me. As an investment piece though it could be smart business, keep a Gibson for 30 yrs and you might have a nice little earner.