Troublesome new Sperzels

Gimlet

Has anyone had any trouble with recently manufactured Sperzels?

They're a set of staggered 6-in-line purchased a few weeks ago to replace an older worn set, which are slipping. They feel awfully rough and seem to be applying a tremendous amount of tension to each string (more than the original set do), whilst simultaneouly really struggling to bring it to concert pitch. It's left me a touch paranoid about any potential harm it may have caused to the neck.

I've gone through several sets of strings trying to fathom the problem: at first I thought it was the two Gotoh PSP springs I installed, but replacing those with the original three black Fender didn't resolve the issue. Then I adjusted the button screws until they became very loose/sloppy without tension applied — still no joy; the new string posts are also a fraction longer and narrower than the orignally installed set, if that could be having any impact. There should be no binding at the bridge plate or saddle as they were fine before. It's worh noting that all the fresh strings used are around ten years old, although I've used the same batch for the last few months without issue.

Is there something I'm missing or haven't tried — own error, duff strings perhaps or are the tuning machines simply faulty?

Thanks!

Winny_Pooh

Friction from the post against the inside of the bushing perhaps? Take one off and have a look and try a tiny bit of grease where it contacts? 

Jimbro66

It may not be the cause of your problem but I bought a set of new Sperzels a couple of years ago and they showed corrosion on several of the tuners. I sent them back. They were certainly not as well built as my 1982 Sperzels which still work perfectly now after 27 years continuous use with no obvious wear.

DrBob

Jimbro66 said:

It may not be the cause of your problem but I bought a set of new Sperzels a couple of years ago and they showed corrosion on several of the tuners. I sent them back. They were certainly not as well built as my 1982 Sperzels which still work perfectly now after 27 years continuous use with no obvious wear.

Wouldn’t that actually be 37 years continuous use ? Which is actually even more impressive !

Jimbro66

DrBob said:

Jimbro66 said:

It may not be the cause of your problem but I bought a set of new Sperzels a couple of years ago and they showed corrosion on several of the tuners. I sent them back. They were certainly not as well built as my 1982 Sperzels which still work perfectly now after 27 years continuous use with no obvious wear.

Wouldn’t that actually be 37 years continuous use ? Which is actually even more impressive !

It is indeed! I must use a calculator more  

Philly_Q

Have Sperzel changed ownership?  Seems odd that these problems would suddenly appear.

Simon_M

Just put a set of six in line staggered Sperzels on my Jazzmaster. Work great, no problems.

Gimlet

Winny_Pooh said:

Friction from the post against the inside of the bushing perhaps? Take one off and have a look and try a tiny bit of grease where it contacts? 

The nut/bushing screws and posts were all greased before being installed, so I'm not sure that's the culprit.

Jimbro66 said:

It may not be the cause of your problem but I bought a set of new Sperzels a couple of years ago and they showed corrosion on several of the tuners. I sent them back. They were certainly not as well built as my 1982 Sperzels which still work perfectly now after 27 years continuous use with no obvious wear.

A quick inspection revealed nothing obviously concerning straight from the packaging, other than a few superficial blemishes. Having again removed the worms from all, they are possibly a little light on grease (tan/pale caramel coloured), however they work perfectly smoothly until I try to tension a string. I'm reluctant to remove the locking wheel to inspect the gears as this allegedly voids the warranty; there's also some sort of thread lock to inhibit accidental removal / act as an alert.

All my other Sperzels, except some from '92, are 80s and were OEM on the the guitars to which they belong. These are the first aftermarket set I've owned and hopefully an abberation.

Philly_Q said:

Have Sperzel changed ownership?  Seems odd that these problems would suddenly appear.

Don't think so. I've seen a number of other reports on the web hinting at issues of a vaguely similar nature, though some appear suspect.

ICBM

It does sound like they may not be as well-made - from your description I think the meshing surfaces of the gears are not smooth. This will not only make them feel rough and stiff when you turn them under load, it will drastically increase the rate of wear.

It won’t actually increase the string tension though - that’s fixed, for a given gauge and pitch - so there’s no risk of it putting extra stress on the neck.

Gimlet

You're likely correct. To the naked eye all appears smooth and well, but there could easily be microscopic surface imperpectetions disguised by the lubricant, which quite naturally will cause problems. They're probably going to have to be returned. It's all very trying! I'm supposed to be at a recording session on Sunday morning and don't have time to get a different strat out of storage or another new set of tuners.

In a last ditch attempt to get these functioning well enough for a few days, I'll try slathering significantly more lubricant on the worms and into the gear housings to see if helps. Does anybody know what type of grease is used in newer sperzels, or a brand to look for; it appears opaque, light tan/caramel in colour and slightly more viscous than pretrolium jelly? 

It certainly felt as though they were at a higher tension. There was also a measurable difference in neck relief and string height for the same guage strings and bridge angle when they were brought up to pitch, before each string then broke between the nut and tuning posts. Could that have been interplay between the Gotoh PSP power springs and the iffy tuners? I suppose the neck might simply have been ready to move a bit, although it's been stable for many years.

ICBM

That's not possible unless you accidentally tuned them too high. Were you using a tuner?

Speaking from personal experience, a tuner can latch onto a harmonic and end up with the strings a fourth or fifth too high...

Gimlet

An electronic tuner was used initially, then referenced against an A 440Hz tuning fork on each string. I took detailed measurments before removing the previous strings, to ensure all was returned to as it had been, the only thing I couldn't adjust being the new, shallower break angle behind the nut. Playing felt much, much stiffer.

The culprit could well be inconsistent manufacture or labelling of the strings; I was given a large batch of them well over a decade ago — there is perchance a reason why I stopped using and put them aside. Time to buy more.

Any help offered thus far is/has been very much appreciated. I'm not in any way attempting to absolve myself of error, neither am I a halfwit trying to fool, just in case there is any suspicion. Nevertheless  I'm under an immense degree of stress at present and not thinking with normal clarity, which doubtlessly is a recipe for further frustration and calamity.