Really quite expensive headphones - thoughts, advice?

Freebird

strtdv said:

I'd imagine at some point diminishing returns will set in

Probably a person's ears 

Megii

Rocker said

Smaller sized files are compressed with a computer algorithm 'decision' to remove what it deems as unnecessary information in the WAV files.  When these files are played, they cannot give you the full WAV sound as some or a lot of information has been stripped out.  Permanently.  Generally though highly compressed music files [small size] sound more vivid and more in your face when listened to on the in-ear buds which have a very limited dynamic range and usable frequency response  [the things supplied with mobile phones, iPods etc.] but if the music is compared to the uncompressed version on good headphones and/or a good hi-fi system, the limitations of the highly compressed files become glaringly obvious.  High levels of compression music files have their uses though, in a noisy environment as in a car, the reduced dynamic range helps the music sound overcome the car/road noise.

I will be honest @Rocker - when acquiring music files, I will always get them in FLAC (or WAV or other lossless) format if at all possible, but a substantial part of my music file collection is MP3, or other lossy file types - M4A etc. . The effect of listening to such files with my newer setup of Fidelio headphones and CA dac/amp has been mostly positive in truth - it seems to me that despite the data compression, there is still detail in there that a better system can bring out i.e. I still get the "hearing things you never noticed before" effect, and a lot of the files sound vivid and engaging. But I will admit that some, especially those at lower bit rates, have had flaws revealed - some amount of distortion for example.

I also listen to stuff straight from Youtube quite a bit, and to be honest, it mostly sounds great to me, although again I understand there is some compression. So I do try to avoid the compressed file formats now, but it's not usually a disaster, at least for me, if I can't. I speak as someone in their mid 50s, so I accept my hearing may not be as sharp as it once was - I've done a couple of those frequency hearing tests, and don't seem to hear much above 14.5KHz.

RaymondLin

The older i am, the less fussed i am about "HiFi".  Went through a phrase where i as balls deep into the whole thing, Tube Headphone amps, £200 VDH Interconnectors and all that stuff....insane...

Much more into my movies now and I listen to music on the go with Apple Airpods...convenience is much more important these days, plus i listen to podcast and not music on the go most of the time too.

Megii

RaymondLin said:

The older i am, the less fussed i am about "HiFi".  Went through a phrase where i as balls deep into the whole thing, Tube Headphone amps, £200 VDH Interconnectors and all that stuff....insane...

Much more into my movies now and I listen to music on the go with Apple Airpods...convenience is much more important these days, plus i listen to podcast and not music on the go.

I suspect you're very wise @RaymondLin - there's always something "better" for more money, and it's a slippery slope. I've got something that sounds great to me, and should probably stick with it and be happy, and keep my money for other things.

Grumpyrocker

My main "hifi" headphones are AKG K712 Pro. They were pretty expensive - though got them in a sale. I can't imagine paying more than that, as I can't really imagine headphones sounding better, or better enough at least to warrant paying more. They are absolutely terrific. 

My portable phones are SoundMagic ME80 - relatively inexpensive and give the big boys a run for the money. Also have some Phonak PFE 122 - which are an armature earphone, they sound slightly better than the ME80 but when it comes down to it the SoundMagic are easier to wear. 

Megii

Grumpyrocker said:

My main "hifi" headphones are AKG K712 Pro. They were pretty expensive - though got them in a sale. I can't imagine paying more than that, as I can't really imagine headphones sounding better, or better enough at least to warrant paying more. They are absolutely terrific. 

My portable phones are SoundMagic ME80 - relatively inexpensive and give the big boys a run for the money. Also have some Phonak PFE 122 - which are an armature earphone, they sound slightly better than the ME80 but when it comes down to it the SoundMagic are easier to wear. 

Interesting to hear about, cheers @Grumpyrocker - the AKG K712 are one I would at least be curious to try, maybe I'll get the chance one time. I have a set of Brainwavz in ears - I forget the model, but they were about £40 - tried them with my dac/amp recently, and while not up to the sound of the Fidelio over-ears, they did surprisingly well. I'll check out the ME80 and Phonaks - haven't come across that brand before.

Limehouse_Blues

I use some superlux cheapo studio headphones that I got for free when I bought a boss multifx from Thomann. They’re fantastic. Retail price is just 20 quid. I pair them with a cowon flac player and am very happy.

No doubt far better headphones exist! But I’d balk at paying more than a hundred on phones for just listening to music. Splashing dough on speakers I can dig but headphones less so. Phones are already a compromise.

RaymondLin

You also have to remember that as we get older, our hearing gets worse, so slowly, there are frequencies that these headphones produces that you will never be able to hear.  It would essentially mean money wasted.

Get something comfortable, something with a sound signature that you enjoy for the music style that you like and that would be the goal.  That is the musical nirvana.

I think the sweet spot is around £300, because the next jump from that are into 4 figures which are crazy money for headphones, 4 figures can get you some amazing speakers which will blow the same price headphones out of the water.

Megii

Limehouse_Blues said:

I use some superlux cheapo studio headphones that I got for free when I bought a boss multifx from Thomann. They’re fantastic. Retail price is just 20 quid. I pair them with a cowon flac player and am very happy.

No doubt far better headphones exist! But I’d balk at paying more than a hundred on phones for just listening to music. Splashing dough on speakers I can dig but headphones less so. Phones are already a compromise.

Well true - headphones is not a very natural way to listen to music, but I've come to like it. Superlux is a brand I've heard very good things about, certainly in terms of bang for the buck. I will say, though, that when I was choosing my headphones, I had set a ceiling of around £100, and was persuaded over that, to £150 - and that is something I don't regret at all.

RaymondLin

BTW, my current go to headphones are

AirPods - when I am at the gym or when I am walking into town.

Sony WH1000X (M3 is the new one) - GREAT noise cancelling, comfortable, battery lasts almost 24hrs.  I use it solely for flights

I still have my Musical Fidelity tube amp, Sennheiser HD600, HD580, Momemtum at home.  I would fire them up if I am in the mood but the AirPods and the Wireless Sony does the job most of the time.  I can tell the difference but I would need to be concentrating on looking for the difference as opposed to listening to music and doing some work.  If it is the latter then I rather have wireless than wired.

Megii

RaymondLin said:

You also have to remember that as we get older, our hearing gets worse, so slowly, there are frequencies that these headphones produces that you will never be able to hear.  It would essentially mean money wasted.

Get something comfortable, something with a sound signature that you enjoy for the music style that you like and that would be the goal.  That is the musical nirvana.

I think the sweet spot is around £300, because the next jump from that are into 4 figures which are crazy money for headphones, 4 figures can get you some amazing speakers which will blow the same price headphones out of the water.

It seems to me that really I already have the comfortable phones with the right sound signature - so I should stop fretting about upgrades and better and all that. 4 figures does strike me as a bit crazy too - if I won the lottery, I imagine I'd go there, and it would be interesting, but I don't have that kind of money to burn. £300 - don't say that! because that is something I could stretch to lol.

Grumpyrocker

Megii said:

Grumpyrocker said:

My main "hifi" headphones are AKG K712 Pro. They were pretty expensive - though got them in a sale. I can't imagine paying more than that, as I can't really imagine headphones sounding better, or better enough at least to warrant paying more. They are absolutely terrific. 

My portable phones are SoundMagic ME80 - relatively inexpensive and give the big boys a run for the money. Also have some Phonak PFE 122 - which are an armature earphone, they sound slightly better than the ME80 but when it comes down to it the SoundMagic are easier to wear. 

Interesting to hear about, cheers @Grumpyrocker - the AKG K712 are one I would at least be curious to try, maybe I'll get the chance one time. I have a set of Brainwavz in ears - I forget the model, but they were about £40 - tried them with my dac/amp recently, and while not up to the sound of the Fidelio over-ears, they did surprisingly well. I'll check out the ME80 and Phonaks - haven't come across that brand before.

Phonak don't make earphones anymore. It's a French hearing aid company that made earphones for a few years then stopped. They used their excellent medical knowledge to make great sounding hifi in-ear phones.

They are very very good, and I got them half price in a sale, but I wouldn't particularly recommend hunting them down. 

Megii

RaymondLin said:

BTW, my current go to headphones are

AirPods - when I am at the gym or when I am walking into town.

Sony WH1000X (M3 is the new one) - GREAT noise cancelling, comfortable, battery lasts almost 24hrs.  I use it solely for flights

I still have my Musical Fidelity tube amp, Sennheiser HD600, HD580, Momemtum at home.  I would fire them up if I am in the mood but the AirPods and the Wireless Sony does the job most of the time.  I can tell the difference but I would need to be concentrating on looking for the difference as opposed to listening to music and doing some work.  If it is the latter then I rather have wireless than wired.

Cheers - if I'm working with background music, I admit I get by fine with a very modest pair of Yamaha desktop speakers fed from my dac/amp. It's not "hi fi" at all, but seems to do me fine. The headphones are more for when I'm more focused on the music.

Megii

Grumpyrocker said:

Megii said:

Grumpyrocker said:

My main "hifi" headphones are AKG K712 Pro. They were pretty expensive - though got them in a sale. I can't imagine paying more than that, as I can't really imagine headphones sounding better, or better enough at least to warrant paying more. They are absolutely terrific. 

My portable phones are SoundMagic ME80 - relatively inexpensive and give the big boys a run for the money. Also have some Phonak PFE 122 - which are an armature earphone, they sound slightly better than the ME80 but when it comes down to it the SoundMagic are easier to wear. 

Interesting to hear about, cheers @Grumpyrocker - the AKG K712 are one I would at least be curious to try, maybe I'll get the chance one time. I have a set of Brainwavz in ears - I forget the model, but they were about £40 - tried them with my dac/amp recently, and while not up to the sound of the Fidelio over-ears, they did surprisingly well. I'll check out the ME80 and Phonaks - haven't come across that brand before.

Phonak don't make earphones anymore. It's a French hearing aid company that made earphones for a few years then stopped. They used their excellent medical knowledge to make great sounding hifi in-ear phones.

They are very very good, and I got them half price in a sale, but I wouldn't particularly recommend hunting them down. 

Appreciated, cheers

oaf

I have some DT 1990 Pros, bought them a few months ago. Happy with them. They are well made/finished, comfortable and sound clean with low distortion and they... resolve well (hard to describe, but detailed with good clarity I suppose). Instruments sit nicely and there's little... "smearing?" - you get a sense that sounds start and stop as they should. (I'm not going to get a job on a hifi mag am I?)

Some people complain that the treble can be a little fatiguing but it's not something that has bothered me. They leak sound like crazy (I can be listening to them at a moderate volume and my Pixel phone placed on my desk will display the song name that I've got on!) so probably for home use only. This is to be expected though given the design.

My main music system is reasonably nice: it uses Parasound Halo amps and B&W 800 series speakers and the sound of these headphones translates well to that system (when trying out and comparing mixes, etc). I tend to use the headphones with an RME Babyface Pro interface.

Downsides? Your ears might get slightly warm due to the pads if you wear over a long period. Getting the pads on/off is a bit of a trial at first (but you're unlikely to do this much/often - you get two sets of pads, one is neutral the other more bassy)... and as I've said, some don't like aspects of the treble with certain material.

Amazon do them, so I imagine you could buy there and return if you didn't like them. For me they felt like a fair compromise between rather good but not very expensive. I would recommend them.

Hope this helps!

RaymondLin

Megii said:

RaymondLin said:

BTW, my current go to headphones are

AirPods - when I am at the gym or when I am walking into town.

Sony WH1000X (M3 is the new one) - GREAT noise cancelling, comfortable, battery lasts almost 24hrs.  I use it solely for flights

I still have my Musical Fidelity tube amp, Sennheiser HD600, HD580, Momemtum at home.  I would fire them up if I am in the mood but the AirPods and the Wireless Sony does the job most of the time.  I can tell the difference but I would need to be concentrating on looking for the difference as opposed to listening to music and doing some work.  If it is the latter then I rather have wireless than wired.

Cheers - if I'm working with background music, I admit I get by fine with a very modest pair of Yamaha desktop speakers fed from my dac/amp. It's not "hi fi" at all, but seems to do me fine. The headphones are more for when I'm more focused on the music.

The issue I have these days is that a lot of headphones are closed back, mostly because they look cool, easier to make the bass more pronounced and needed for noise cancelling which is all the rage.  However you don’t need noise cancelling at home (most of the time) and a closed back does constraint the soundstage.  An open back makes the sound more natural but people in the room will hear what you are hearing so they are not good with people around and not good out and about but they are arguably better headphones.  

Massdrop often do a version of the HD600 in a slightly different style, but have the same driver and actually cheaper than the £300 RRP for the HD600.  That would be where my money would go if you are after a pair of open back headphones.  Grado I’ve head good things about too, but it is more geared towards rock music.

Megii

oaf said:

I have some DT 1990 Pros, bought them a few months ago. Happy with them. They are well made/finished, comfortable and sound clean with low distortion and they... resolve well (hard to describe, but detailed with good clarity I suppose). Instruments sit nicely and there's little... "smearing?" - you get a sense that sounds start and stop as they should. (I'm not going to get a job on a hifi mag am I?)

Some people complain that the treble can be a little fatiguing but it's not something that has bothered me. They leak sound like crazy (I can be listening to them at a moderate volume and my Pixel phone placed on my desk will display the song name that I've got on!) so probably for home use only. This is to be expected though given the design.

My main music system is reasonably nice: it uses Parasound Halo amps and B&W 800 series speakers and the sound of these headphones translates well to that system (when trying out and comparing mixes, etc). I tend to use the headphones with an RME Babyface Pro interface.

Downsides? Your ears might get slightly warm due to the pads if you wear over a long period. Getting the pads on/off is a bit of a trial at first (but you're unlikely to do this much/often - you get two sets of pads, one is neutral the other more bassy)... and as I've said, some don't like aspects of the treble with certain material.

Amazon do them, so I imagine you could buy there and return if you didn't like them. For me they felt like a fair compromise between rather good but not very expensive. I would recommend them.

Hope this helps!

Doesn't help at all lol - the DT 1990 is probably the main contender I'd mentally picked out as a possible affordable upgrade to my Fidelios, and there I was thinking to settle where I am, and you go and post this... One thing I've heard is the the detail resolution on the 1990s is superb, and I think I'd enjoy that. Also the bass extension very good which is a thing for me. As to the treble, I think I'd probably be fine with that too -  some say the Fidelios are over bright/sibilant, but I have no issues there. I'll look up about the RME Babyface Pro.

Megii

RaymondLin said:

Megii said:

RaymondLin said:

BTW, my current go to headphones are

AirPods - when I am at the gym or when I am walking into town.

Sony WH1000X (M3 is the new one) - GREAT noise cancelling, comfortable, battery lasts almost 24hrs.  I use it solely for flights

I still have my Musical Fidelity tube amp, Sennheiser HD600, HD580, Momemtum at home.  I would fire them up if I am in the mood but the AirPods and the Wireless Sony does the job most of the time.  I can tell the difference but I would need to be concentrating on looking for the difference as opposed to listening to music and doing some work.  If it is the latter then I rather have wireless than wired.

Cheers - if I'm working with background music, I admit I get by fine with a very modest pair of Yamaha desktop speakers fed from my dac/amp. It's not "hi fi" at all, but seems to do me fine. The headphones are more for when I'm more focused on the music.

The issue I have these days is that a lot of headphones are closed back, mostly because they look cool, easier to make the bass more pronounced and needed for noise cancelling which is all the rage.  However you don’t need noise cancelling at home (most of the time) and a closed back does constraint the soundstage.  An open back makes the sound more natural but people in the room will hear what you are hearing so they are not good with people around and not good out and about but they are arguably better headphones.  

Massdrop often do a version of the HD600 in a slightly different style, but have the same driver and actually cheaper than the £300 RRP for the HD600.  That would be where my money would go if you are after a pair of open back headphones.  Grado I’ve head good things about too, but it is more geared towards rock music.

With you re the open backs - I'm a home listener, so sound leak not a problem, and I'm a sucker for the wide sound stage. Somehow I don't think the HD600 would be a natural fit for me though - call me a bass head, but I do like a bit of emphasized deep bass (nothing mad), and I don't think they have this - just a personal preference, and it would interesting to compare them all the same. I looked at Grado when I was choosing my Fidelios, and obviously very good, but again I thought probably not the best fit for me. Massdrop I've heard of - they sell their own spec, arguably improved versions of headphones, often for less money I believe.

Grumpyrocker

I have some Grado SR80i - the sounds is very good, especially for rock. But they can be a bit trebbly and they aren't anywhere near as comfortable for long listening as my AKG 712 Pro. I've hardly used the Grado since I got my AKG. 

oaf

Megii said:

Doesn't help at all lol - the DT 1990 is probably the main contender I'd mentally picked out as a possible affordable upgrade to my Fidelios, and there I was thinking to settle where I am, and you go and post this... One thing I've heard is the the detail resolution on the 1990s is superb, and I think I'd enjoy that. Also the bass extension very good which is a thing for me. As to the treble, I think I'd probably be fine with that too -  some say the Fidelios are over bright/sibilant, but I have no issues there. I'll look up about the RME Babyface Pro.

I have a feeling the 1990s would match you nicely then, especially with the bass pads on (which is how they ship if I remember correctly). You can always swap over to the neutral ones if you ever want to use them with your DAW. I see they're currently just under £384 at Amazon, about £15 less than they typically go for I think