Upgrade MIM vintage strat trem to Gotoh?

PonchoGreg

Hiya! With my MIM classic 60s strat getting progressively upgraded, I was wondering if I should turn to the trem... At the moment it has the original unit, vintage US specs (with a full-size block, but not sure what it's made of). I was thinking of perhaps trying out the steel block Gotoh unit: https://g-gotoh.com/international/product/ge101ts.html

Has anybody done a similar swap? Is it likely to yield any quality improvement? I usually rate Gotoh stuff, but as it's still £80 or so I thought I'd see if anyone had any experience with it...

To be clear there's nothing bad going on with the MIM bridge, apart from the saddles showing some signs of wear under the strings.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: turns out the MIM vintage trem has a "die-cast" block, retails for about £40

CasperCaster

MIM Classic series block is full size, but die-cast zinc. The Gotoh trem in your link has a superior steel block. Just be aware that there are some OEM versions of the Gotoh which I occasionally see for sale for a lot less, but these have zinc blocks.

I think the block is a critical component in a Strat, and a steel one will allow you to hear the full potential of the instrument.

Replacement blocks by Callaham, Wudtone and Kev Hurley are alternatives to replacing the whole trem. I've not purchased from Kev Hurley since he went off eBay, but his blocks with stainless steel arms and a delrin sleeve at the top of the arm hole (stops arm wobble) were about £40 delivered. I have some in steel and some in brassand they are excellent. 

Funkfingers

In the Gotoh GE101 dimensions illustration, the spread of the fulcrum screws (and, hence, the strings) is a vintage correct 56mm.

Measure the same dimension on the MIM vibrato bridge. It may be narrower. e.g. 52.5mm

Unless you can find a "conversion" bridge with wide saddle spacing and narrow fulcrum screw spacing, it will be necessary to fill and redrill.

PonchoGreg

Funkfingers said:

In the Gotoh GE101 dimensions illustration, the spread of the fulcrum screws (and, hence, the strings) is a vintage correct 56mm.

Measure the same dimension on the MIM vibrato bridge. It may be narrower. e.g. 52.5mm

Unless you can find a "conversion" bridge with wide saddle spacing and narrow fulcrum screw spacing, it will be necessary to fill and redrill.

The trem used in the Classic series (and the old Highway Ones, for that matter) is defo 56mm. Different indeed to the standard 6-screw MIM trem, which is 52mm.

PonchoGreg

CasperCaster said:

MIM Classic series block is full size, but die-cast zinc. The Gotoh trem in your link has a superior steel block. Just be aware that there are some OEM versions of the Gotoh which I occasionally see for sale for a lot less, but these have zinc blocks.

I think the block is a critical component in a Strat, and a steel one will allow you to hear the full potential of the instrument.

Replacement blocks by Callaham, Wudtone and Kev Hurley are alternatives to replacing the whole trem. I've not purchased from Kev Hurley since he went off eBay, but his blocks with stainless steel arms and a delrin sleeve at the top of the arm hole (stops arm wobble) were about £40 delivered. I have some in steel and some in brassand they are excellent. 

Cheers - yeah I thought about swapping the block alone, but at that point I was thinking "maybe spend another £40 and get better components all round?". Not sure if that would actually be worth it though...

CasperCaster

MIM Classic 60's bridge is vintage 56mm spaced (unlike 52.5mm Mex Std), so the Gotoh will be a direct fit. But that does bring up another point - some players prefer a narrower string spacing so the strings are further from the fingerboard edge. There are hybrid bridges available which have 56mm mounting, but 52.5mm string spacing e.g Callaham vintage narrow, ABM5050S, Wudtone etc, but expensive. At more reasonable price is the Fender Highway One/ American Special bridge with steel block (compound steel rather than machined CRS, but still a step up from zinc), about £40 from First Guitars in Bingley (Bridge only, no arm/ claw/ springs).

Edit: multiple posts passing each other in the Internet ether! 

Funkfingers

PonchoGreg said:

I thought about swapping the block alone. 

Consider, if you will, what Leo Fender used for his fulcrum vibrato. Plain steel, electroplated to look prettier. Crude but effective. 

Changing a sustain block could be thought of as a bit of a chore or as a learning experience. (e.g. Measure the intonation settings before dismantling!) 

PonchoGreg said:

"maybe spend another £40 and get better components all round?". Not sure if that would actually be worth it though.

The one thing that purchasing a complete replacement fulcrum vibrato guarantees is that the arm thread will match the block thread.

PonchoGreg

Yeah I'll definitely keep the 56mm string spacing. Would throw me off otherwise

I might contact Kev Hurley and see how much he'd charge for a block (if he's still willing to do it), maybe add a couple of other expenses (I need to replace some of the intonation springs, need another spring or two in the back, etc.) and see where that gets me vs a full upgrade

CasperCaster

My suggestion to look at replacing the block alone was simply a financial one - half the price of a complete Gotoh trem. I have owned and used the Gotoh trem and it is a very high quality item, and actually competitively priced when compared to Callaham/ ABM/ Wudtone. I sold my Gotoh trem only because I prefer the narrower 52.5mm string spacing. I also found that a brass block tempered a too bright Strat. 

HAL9000

I’ve replaced the zinc block on my MIM Strat with a Callaham steel item. Just the block - not the saddles etc. It has made a difference to the sustain but, tbh, it’s fairly slight. More noticeably, the tone has a little more brightness than with the original block. Would I do it again? Probably, but I would regard it as ‘nice to have’ rather than essential.

PonchoGreg

Thanks, that's very helpful

HAL9000

As an aside to this - it does annoy me that Fender’s own website is (I suspect deliberately) vague on which models have zinc, compound steel, or machined steel blocks. (Same goes for most of the hardware bits and bods to be honest.)

Philly_Q

HAL9000 said:

As an aside to this - it does annoy me that Fender’s own website is (I suspect deliberately) vague on which models have zinc, compound steel, or machined steel blocks. (Same goes for most of the hardware bits and bods to be honest.)

True, but I think it pretty much follows the price range of the guitar itself, although there may be a few exceptions.

CasperCaster

The Fender AVRI steel block is also available as a spare part, Fender part 001-9473-049

HAL9000

Philly_Q said:

HAL9000 said:

As an aside to this - it does annoy me that Fender’s own website is (I suspect deliberately) vague on which models have zinc, compound steel, or machined steel blocks. (Same goes for most of the hardware bits and bods to be honest.)

True, but I think it pretty much follows the price range of the guitar itself, although there may be a few exceptions.

I'm sure you're right, but do you know at what point the blocks stop being zinc alloy? Or what models have bent steel rather than cast saddles? Certainly can't glean it from their website.

Philly_Q

HAL9000 said:

Philly_Q said:

HAL9000 said:

As an aside to this - it does annoy me that Fender’s own website is (I suspect deliberately) vague on which models have zinc, compound steel, or machined steel blocks. (Same goes for most of the hardware bits and bods to be honest.)

True, but I think it pretty much follows the price range of the guitar itself, although there may be a few exceptions.

I'm sure you're right, but do you know at what point the blocks stop being zinc alloy? Or what models have bent steel rather than cast saddles? Certainly can't glean it from their website.

I cannot tell a lie, I don't know exactly!  But if you're considering just the vintage-style six-screw bridges, for example, there aren't that many different ones.  The cheapo narrow-spaced bridge they use on the MIM Standards (or whatever that range is currently called), the Ping(?) vintage bridge they use on Classics.  Then on USA models they use essentially the same bridge on everything from AVRI/American Original to Custom Shop.

And although they frequently tweak the Fender range as a whole, they rarely change the hardware.

I admit I'm a lot more uncertain if you start adding in MIJs and Squiers….

Oh and there was the bridge on the Highway One, with 56mm screw spacing but 52.5mm saddles.

OK, I give up, you're right.