Telecaster tone control options? Tonestyler? Varitone? Cap/pot changes?

Matt_McG

I've been somewhat dissatisfied with the tone control on my ASAT. I rewired it recently to use the 50s LP style wiring, and haven't really loved the result. But generally, I find the roll off not smooth enough, and the results a bit black and white. Muffled versus no audible change.

So what are the options out there? Whether that's changing the pot to a different value or taper, or changing the cap values, or using something like a Stellar Tonestyler, or a Varitone (with an inductor).

The main requirement is to be able to get a somewhat darker tone (when required), but without just descending into mush. But also, more notched or phasey sounds (like the Varitone makes) might also be interesting.

I suppose using something active might be an option, but there's not really a space for a battery, I don't think. Borderline, anyway. The cavity is quite deep so it might just be do-able.

I might even think about increasing the volume pot to 280K or 300K, or using no-load pots.

Matt

Roland

Before completely replacing the guitar’s electronics have you tried the simple steps:
1. Using a longer or shorter lead (a lead’s internal capacitance affects the tone)
2. Changing the tone capacitor. Presumably it’s currently 0.22. A 0.47 cap would make the guitar darker.
3. Adding a treble bleed, which makes the guitar brighter as the volume is turned down, and compensates for a larger tone cap.

ICBM

250K, proper Log pot, .022uF or .01uF cap if you prefer middy/phasey rather than soft and dark, Fender not 50s Gibson wiring.

Don't make things more complicated, none of these patent-pending schemes work as well as the original.

ChuckManual

ICBM said:

250K, proper Log pot, .022uF or .01uF cap if you prefer middy/phasey rather than soft and dark...

Could you fit both and have a toggle to switch between them?

Funkfingers

Which exact model of G&L ASAT is under discussion? The one with alnico rod magnet polepieces (like F ... you know who?), the one with big MFD single coils or the one with small MFD single coils. Both of the latter designs feature adjustable polepieces and underslung ceramic bar magnets.

crunchman

ICBM said:

250K, proper Log pot, .022uF or .01uF cap if you prefer middy/phasey rather than soft and dark, Fender not 50s Gibson wiring.

Don't make things more complicated, none of these patent-pending schemes work as well as the original.

Don't know what G&L use as standard but 0.047uF is standard on a Fender Tele.  0.022uF or 0.01uF as suggested will affect a smaller range of frequencies.

The type of cap doesn't really matter, but it's a lot easier to solder if you get one with long legs.  Orange drops have nice long legs that are nice and stiff.

Matt_McG

The one with the big MFD single coils. I did check the wiring diagrams on the Guitars by Leo site, though. To confirm I am using the right pot values. Some wiring diagrams seem to have treble bleed, and some do not.

The pots are CTS log pots, 250K. Originally it had Mighty Mite 250Ks, but I swapped them out for CTS a while ago. 

I may just revert back to the original wiring (which just involves moving one leg of the tone), and swap down to a lower capacitor value. 0.022 is a tiny bit dark all the way off, and all of the action happens between about 2 and 4 on the pot. Above that, it's not really an audible change, and below, it's just woolly. 

Matt_McG

One of the wiring diagrams has a 1meg tone pot, and a 250k volume, but all of the rest (and there are three or four) use 250K for both.

ICBM

ChuckManual said:

ICBM said:

250K, proper Log pot, .022uF or .01uF cap if you prefer middy/phasey rather than soft and dark...

Could you fit both and have a toggle to switch between them?

Or better, a push-pull. CTS do a decent quality one, which is 500K but that matters less than just having a good taper - the extra resistance just means it goes up to 11 .

Matt_McG said:

0.022 is a tiny bit dark all the way off, and all of the action happens between about 2 and 4 on the pot. Above that, it's not really an audible change, and below, it's just woolly. 

Sounds like you need a .01uF, but you could also try .015, 0.12, .0082, .0068 etc - these values will give very subtly different results but are generally harder to find.

Matt_McG said:

One of the wiring diagrams has a 1meg tone pot, and a 250k volume, but all of the rest (and there are three or four) use 250K for both.

1Meg will just be like going up to 12 - so close to a no-load that you probably won't be able to tell the difference.

Rusty-Strings

I did the 50s wiring mod to my Tele and was totally underwhelmed. Love on my Les Paul standard and Jnr, possibly not a Fender appropriate mod!

Funkfingers

Matt_McG said:

The one with the big MFD single coils.

Excellent pickups but they never twang as much as traditional Fender T pickups.

I agree with ICBM’s suggestion to try an A500k volume pot.

You mention that one of the official schematic diagrams features a 1Meg volume pot.* I associate these with the Fender Jazzmaster and Jaguar. One idea that might be worth stealing from the latter is the Bass Cut “strangle” switch. Achieve a bright sound by ditching low end.


* Possibly the Will Ray Hellecaster model.

Matt_McG

The schematic has a 1 meg tone pot,
not volume. Vol is 250k. But only one ASAT schematic, the rest are all 250 for both.

i don’t mind the lack of twang, I just want to restore a bit of flexibility to the tone control, and bring back a perceived loss of mid range.