Do you believe in a tone difference between different types of Mahogany?

Hydra19

The discussions on tone difference between mahogany from honduras and mahogany from Africa are pretty much featured on every forum I visit, without an conclusions. I think unless you have several guitars from each, the difference is psychological.

I contemplating buying an SG, there are 2 choices, buy new from Japan, african mahogany or buy a used one locally, honduran mahogany. Since the guitar is all mahogany I'm tempted to go for the used one, as it will be cheaper overall, and maybe overall better quality.

But on guitars that are all mahogany, such as the Les Paul Custom, SGs, the Juniors, and acoustics the difference maybe more apparent. What i hear said about Honduran is that it has more low mids, making it sound a bit fuller than African. 

Does anyone have both and notice any difference?

stickyfiddle

I'm sure there are differences, but I'm pretty sure that 2 different bits of the same species can be as different as 2 bits of different species. 

Much more important is to buy the one that looks/sounds/feels better. 

crunchman

There will be differences between different pieces, but that will happen within the same species.  When I've bought guitars in the past, I've sometimes got 3 or 4 of the same guitar in a room and tried them all out back to back.  On a couple of occasions that has been with PRS.  The older pickups were all machine wound and would have been identical.  Their quality control and set up are as good as it gets, yet there are definite tonal differences between different guitars of the same model - where the wood is likely to all be from the same source.

I think the thing with the classic "Honduras" mahogany is that it is very light, yet still has a similar stiffness to heavier mahogany.

carlos

No

stonevibe

I think it depends on how humid it is and how that affects the air. Plus whether or not you have the right gauge and brand of strings and what type of capacitor you have on your Tone pot.

Of course, you should also take into account the thickness of the paint finish on the guitar and whether it was applied on a Friday or not. As everyone knows Friday finishes suck tone.

Then there is the 'are you wearing man made fibres or are your clothes natural fibres' argument etc etc


All of these things have bearing on how your guitar sounds.


Probably...

brooom

Hydra19 said:

The discussions on tone difference between mahogany from honduras and mahogany from Africa are pretty much featured on every forum I visit, without an conclusions. I think unless you have several guitars from each, the difference is psychological.

I contemplating buying an SG, there are 2 choices, buy new from Japan, african mahogany or buy a used one locally, honduran mahogany. Since the guitar is all mahogany I'm tempted to go for the used one, as it will be cheaper overall, and maybe overall better quality.

But on guitars that are all mahogany, such as the Les Paul Custom, SGs, the Juniors, and acoustics the difference maybe more apparent. What i hear said about Honduran is that it has more low mids, making it sound a bit fuller than African. 

Does anyone have both and notice any difference?

There's a japanese Navigator SG for sale on reverb and here at the moment. This was bought at a japanese auction, but is currently in the UK (so you wouldn't have to import it), they're really nice guitar and Navigator is using honduran mahogany.

As for your question, does it make a difference, I personally don't think so. Buy the guitar you like, regardless of the mahogany type.

Hydra19

Yes, I know Definately considering it
I do have Navigators, and they sound amazing, one has honduran for sure, and the other one is much older, it doesn't look the same, but it sounds as good if not better so I don't think there are rules. I did read a lot of posts about the magic of older SG's sounding better and fuller, and some say it's down to the honduran mahogany.

brooom

Having owned 50s/60s gibson, including a 64 SG Junior as well as a 2014 Gibson VOS SG and several japanese (grecos/orvilles/navigators), etc. I would disagree, it's not the honduran mahogany.

Either you get a good guitar or you don't and in some cases when you don't they can me made good, if certain issues are address. In other cases, they're just not great to begin with.

Hydra19

That makes sense, african mahogany is now used for majority of production, and has been for decades. Were the wood tone subpar it would have come out by now, but I think we've all played guitars that were fantastic and the wood was not honduran, or even more likely, we had no idea what it was, play it, sounds good. 
The thing with SG's, they almost all cherry and I found one in Japan that's metallic green, like I wanted for a long time, and if the wood doesn't matter, the color, or the look sure does!

Sassafras

There will be differences but none that can be reliably ascribed to one type of mahogany or another. Seeing as no 2 pieces of wood are identical there will always be differences.
Some things can't be conveniently classified.

bloomer

If Gibson had by chance used African Mahogany in their 50s guitars, we'd all be wanting that over Honduran. Most Honduran mahogany available today is plantation stuff that's grown somewhere other than Honduras, and usually not even South America. So old growth African 'mahogany'  vs plantation Honduran - discuss. Some builders are using Spanish cedar as a mahogany substitute eg Nik Huber. It's lighter than mahogany in general and apparently sounds just as good.

fretmeister

Maybe.

But next to pickup / setup / strings / a 0.00005mm eq change I doubt it is important.

brooom

bloomer said:

If Gibson had by chance used African Mahogany in their 50s guitars, we'd all be wanting that over Honduran. Most Honduran mahogany available today is plantation stuff that's grown somewhere other than Honduras, and usually not even South America. So old growth African 'mahogany'  vs plantation Honduran - discuss. Some builders are using Spanish cedar as a mahogany substitute eg Nik Huber. It's lighter than mahogany in general and apparently sounds just as good.

Apparently they did... also spanish cedar has been reported.

ICBM

No.

I believe there can be tone differences between individual pieces of wood - between densities, between *widely differing* types of wood, possibly grain structure and orientation, and the resulting resonances from the combination of those things. But not inherently between two closely related species of timber.

sawyer

I'm sure different pieces of timber of the same species will vary but I think the pickups have a bigger part to play.

TINMAN82

Geez, one thread suggests strats are indistinguishable from Les Pauls, now this!

guitars4you

2 pieces of mahogany from the same patch of the forest will have marginal differences - Different densities , different natural acoustic pitch - So no 2 pieces of the same wood are exactly the same anyway

I dare say most of us can tell the difference between the completed and finished guitar, that has some 'mojo' about it, the way it sounds, sings, sustains - Against a similar guitar that sounds lifeless - But this can happen with 2 pieces of wood from the same forest, let alone from a different country

Most good builders, large or small, can select the wood they prefer for their guitar - The likes of Gibson can keep the better pieces with any lively vibrant qualities, for the 'more expensive' guitars and move lesser grade wood down the line, to more affordable models, to minimise any wastage - Smaller luthiers will be very selective anyway - I dare the likes of @IvisonGuitars , @FelineGuitars , @Danielsguitars , @Rabs ; etc etc, can pass comment on this - I'm sure they will have a hands on input as to what determines the weight, acoustic tonal character/resonance' and cosmetic status of any wood they select for their guitars

Also remember, the mahogany for the body will have a different density, weight and tonal character/resonance than the mahogany required for the neck (here they will require a stiffer/tighter grain, for strength and stability)

Funkfingers

I don't believe in Zimmerman.

I don't believe in Beatles.

I just believe that, if the sum of a guitar's parts sounds and feels good, I should play the bejeezus out of it.

Danielsguitars

bloomer said:

If Gibson had by chance used African Mahogany in their 50s guitars, we'd all be wanting that over Honduran. Most Honduran mahogany available today is plantation stuff that's grown somewhere other than Honduras, and usually not even South America. So old growth African 'mahogany'  vs plantation Honduran - discuss. Some builders are using Spanish cedar as a mahogany substitute eg Nik Huber. It's lighter than mahogany in general and apparently sounds just as good.

They have there's a 56 goldtop refinished by clive brown, he said it's african, that's not the only one, impossible 

They imported more African then than anything else, i wish people would get off the honduran is best band wagon, it's either good wood or not imo

For a full carved top i want lighter weight mahogany, if it's well seasoned I'll use it

I've built with african, honduran and old non plantation mahogany, guess what they all came out sounding good apart from one heavier honduran les paul, it was good but just didn't ring enough for me so i took it apart, recently i built another one using old khaya it was same weight as the heavy honduran one finished, night and day difference, the old khaya rings like a bell which threw my weight theory out the window

Construction is another important part of that guitar as a whole, alot of tone comes from a neck too

earwighoney

Even for acoustic guitars, I can't really tell a difference between ones I own that have African Khaya Mahogany or Honduras Species Mahogany back and sides, and that applies to many others ones I have played as well. 

Even for acoustic soundboards that are made from different species of Mahogany, I can't tell the difference.  So for an electric guitar, I think it's even less important. 

As for Spanish Cedar, it's choice for classical guitars/nylon string guitars and I read on a few forums the good quality stuff seems thin on the ground, so I imagine it'd be even less seen for electrics in the future. 

ICBM

TINMAN82 said:

Geez, one thread suggests strats are indistinguishable from Les Pauls, now this!

It's strange, isn't it?

In one thread it's difficult to tell the difference between totally different types of guitars... and in another you can easily hear that three almost identical Les Pauls don't sound quite the same.

It's like Schrödinger's Cat - both things are true at the same time, even though that's totally contrary to all common sense. (If you're unfamiliar with quantum physics, the cat is *not* either alive or dead - it's both, simultaneously.)