Dumb question, do I need a DI?

hugbot

I've never tried DI'g a bass before, but lack of an amp for an upcoming tour means I'm seriously considering it.

I have a POD I was intending to use as preamp, Do I need a DI box of my own or is it something I can reasonably expect venues to have?

ICBM

Not only can you reasonably expect the venue to, most sound engineers prefer you to use theirs.

That said it's probably not a bad idea to have one of your own as a backup. In fact, I'd probably get something like a Tech21 Bass Driver so you can use it as a backup preamp if the Pod goes down, too. Not cheap though.

randomhandclaps

Personally, I would never 'expect' any venue to have anything.  Way too much of a gamble.

If however you are going through the POD then you do not need a DI box as well.

 

hugbot

I have no idea about DIs to be honest, as I understood it they convert the bad signal into nice signal and thats as much as I know. I assumed the signal coming from the POD might not be suitable for whatever reason.

randomhandclaps

The EBS Micro Bass 2 which can be had quite reasonably second hand is a phenomenal DI bass solution.

maltingsaudio

The line out from the pod should go directly into the PA with no problems. I would however carry a di with you just in case. As said befor it is highly unlikely that the venue won't have a di box for you but you can never guarantee anything like that.

ESBlonde

A Direct Injection box takes the unbalanced high impedance guitar/keys/bass signal and converts it to a low impedance balanced (mic level) signal.

This means that you can drive the signal a long distance to the desk without any loss of tone and without any crackling on the cable.

There are two types of DI, [1] Passive where a high quality audio transformer does the job. These are never cheap unless the transformer is sub standard and are best used for outputs that are already active like keyboards or drum boxes. [2] Active where a circuit does all the jiggery pockery (sometimes with a mini transformer included) and takes the power it requires from a battery or from the mic line as phantom power. These are best suited to passive signals like a guitar/bass.

The Pod and other similar units incorporate the active circuitry of a DI within them and mean you don't need an additional unit.

Most House Sound systems have there own DI boxes so unless you band require lots for banjos, fiddles, etc. you should be fine. If you want to carry a light-weigh good quality active unit just in case, try Orchid electronics with there micro DI box at £25 or their classic DI for £36. Both are quality sound at sensible prices and John Godsland is a very helpful bloke that stands behind his product.

ICBM

One thing I've noticed is that old, quite cheap passive DI boxes seem to sound better with digital modellers than 'better' active ones do - the lower-quality transformer seems to take away some of the artificiality of the digital sound, probably in the same sort of way that a vintage valve amp output transformer might be a bit under-spec from a hi-fi point of view but produces a 'good' sound.

No idea if there's much science behind that but I have a couple of old DI boxes like that which I definitely prefer over my active one, for electric guitar or bass.

koneguitarist

Am I getting this right, you are going on tour as a bassist and you don't even have a bass amp let alone a DI ?

hugbot

koneguitarist said:

Am I getting this right, you are going on tour as a bassist and you don't even have a bass amp let alone a DI ?

Yes, the last bassist quit and the band were like "shit we need a bass player for this tour fast".

I don't have a fucking clue about bass. I play with a pick.

thecolourbox

I don't even play guitar with a pick, is that not what you do with a bass?

koneguitarist

hugbot said:

koneguitarist said:

Am I getting this right, you are going on tour as a bassist and you don't even have a bass amp let alone a DI ?

Yes, the last bassist quit and the band were like "shit we need a bass player for this tour fast".

I don't have a fucking clue about bass. I play with a pick.

Lots of bassists use picks, including me generally. Just surprised no amp, but that explains it. I would be tempted to get an amp s/h even if you use it as a monitor. Most decent bass amps have a DI built in anyway.

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

Lots of bassists use picks, including me generally. Just surprised no amp, but that explains it. I would be tempted to get an amp s/h even if you use it as a monitor. Most decent bass amps have a DI built in anyway.

Which the average sound engineer won't let you use! Been there and had that argument quite a few times… they prefer you to DI from in front of the amp.

I can see the logic in not bothering with an amp, if the venues have decent PA and monitors. I don't intend to take my own bass amp where I can avoid it - I'm just not that fussy, and my sound comes more from my preamp/FX unit than from the amp. An amp is nice and gives an extra level of control and coping with unexpectedly poor PA/monitors, but generally you will only be using it as a monitor anyway.

Danny1969

I love this thing as a Bass DI 

That in a small bag rack with some IEM's would be my travelling bass rig

maltingsaudio

ESBlonde said:

 If you want to carry a light-weigh good quality active unit just in case, try Orchid electronics with there micro DI box at £25 or their classic DI for £36. Both are quality sound at sensible prices and John Godsland is a very helpful bloke that stands behind his product.

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

Lots of bassists use picks, including me generally. Just surprised no amp, but that explains it. I would be tempted to get an amp s/h even if you use it as a monitor. Most decent bass amps have a DI built in anyway.

Which the average sound engineer won't let you use! Been there and had that argument quite a few times… they prefer you to DI from in front of the amp.

As per the above don't buy the Orchid micro  di for bass duties buy the classic because this allows you to split the signal as per @ICBM 's comment.

 Personally I tend to ask the player which method he prefers either from the amp's di or splitting it and tell him if the amps di is noisy will go back to the split as long as its a good clean signal then it doesn't make any difference to me. Have had only one real problem with this in that a bassist who was using a Hartke amp insisted that the phantom power being sent down the bass line damaged his amp. When I offered to test and sort his amp out he declined!

This discussion does bring up another aside in that guitarists are so fussy over their tone yet bassists nearly always leave it up to the sound man to decide how they should sound!

Danny1969

If the amps DI is pre fader then it's fine but some on some amps the DI is post fader and that's a pain 

A lot of stuff now is distorted "Muse" type bass so they generally have a sound they want

littlegreenman

randomhandclaps said:

The EBS Micro Bass 2 which can be had quite reasonably second hand is a phenomenal DI bass solution.

I have one of those, it's great. DI box and proper 2 channel preamp in one, XLR out (pre or post EQ), speaker sim, FX loop and mute switch. Even has phantom power to feed my active bass

koneguitarist

A lot of bass amps have a switchable DI, for before or after preamp, so not an issue in bands that I have been in. I did a gig years ago and used a DI box before a huge Trace Elliot stack that another band had provided, best sound I had for years, but that was through a good quality rig, where sound engineer knew what he was doing!

ICBM

koneguitarist said:

A lot of bass amps have a switchable DI, for before or after preamp, so not an issue in bands that I have been in. I did a gig years ago and used a DI box before a huge Trace Elliot stack that another band had provided, best sound I had for years, but that was through a good quality rig, where sound engineer knew what he was doing!

The trouble is when they don't!

The last time I accepted being DI'd from in front of the amp when I didn't get all my sound from my pedalboard - after the soundman got very stroppy about DI'ing the amp - we were having a recording done from the desk which I listened to afterwards. The out-front bass tone was awful, completely the opposite of what I had the amp set for and what was right for the band mix. I now regret not standing my ground - especially given that he said "you'll need to turn down, the bass amp is interfering with the mix"… now I know why - interfering with his ability to create a completely different mix. Since then, I've always carried enough on the pedalboard to be able to simply do it all from in front of the amp if necessary - which doesn't guarantee they won't screw it up at the desk, but at least gives a fighting chance.

Interestingly I was using a Trace Elliot stack then too, but through the PA it sounded more like I was playing under water...