Home monitors not quite cutting it - better setup for my purposes?

thecolourbox

Hi all

I no longer have an amp as space is at a premium and even if I did have one I don't have anywhere to sit it so it projects at the right angle for the volume of etc. So I just use a modelling unit (gsp1101) in stereo through a cheap behringer xenyx mixer  into two cheap monitors - they are Fostex PM04.n01 monitors. It's in my spare room so no sound treatment or anything and the speakers live on my window sill.

They are ok, seem fairly clear if a bit quiet. But seem to be lacking especially in the bass. I keep getting told the gsp1101 is a good unit as it has loads of eq options so I think it must be the speakers setup that is the problem.

If I increase the bass on the gsp global eq or on the mixer eq it just seems to boom or distort a bit rather than improving matters.

I was wondering if there might be any tips as to how I might omlette the setup maybe? Is there a way to rig up a subwoofer to give it more bass? Or maybe some kind of surround sound hifi type set up might work?

Reason I mention the hifi thing is that I don't feel that at my level of things it matters that much whether I use flat monitors or hifi setup, so the usual "hifi flatters your sound" problem isn't really an issue for me

Thanks
Matt

octatonic

Guitar doesn’t really have a lot of frequencies in the sub region unless you are playing an ERG.
Adding a sub isn’t the way I’d do this.

Better speakers, some room treatment.
Otherwise I’d live with what you have.

WiresDreamDisasters

Agree with Oct. Sub is pointless for guitars really.

Better speakers with bigger drivers will get you more low-end. Your monitors have a 4" woofer which isn't going to give you enough low end. You could take a look at the Focal Alpha 65's which is what I have or the Alpha 80's. Those have a 6.5" and 8.0" woofer respectively, and will give you oodles of low-end.

But you will definitely want some sort of room treatment too, in order to avoid creating the opposite problem to your current one - too much bass and too much room resonance.

You can build some Rockwool based absorption panels for relatively cheap, and if your room is smallish you might not need that many to get a good effect.

thecolourbox

Great thanks fellas, makes sense.

The speakers mentioned are way out of my league unfortunately, as is a better modelling unit too in all honesty, so I think I'll have to lump it unfortunately!

Edit: also as the room is a functioning room and not therefore dedicated to my futile guitar playing, panels being fitted to the walls sadly won't be permitted. I need a new hobby I think!

WiresDreamDisasters

thecolourbox said:

Great thanks fellas, makes sense.

The speakers mentioned are way out of my league unfortunately, as is a better modelling unit too in all honesty, so I think I'll have to lump it unfortunately!

Edit: also as the room is a functioning room and not therefore dedicated to my futile guitar playing, panels being fitted to the walls sadly won't be permitted. I need a new hobby I think!

What's your budget for monitors guv?

thecolourbox

Minimal unfortunately, I think I got these ones in a swap for a pedal worth about £40 haha so won't really get anything for disposing of them, and any money I spend on this will mean I wouldn't be able to get an amp should I ever need to play anywhere outside the house again.

Not to worry, I'll try the headphone approach instead, hopefully that will fatigue my ears sufficiently to make me want to give it up in favour of a different hobby...

Musicwolf

I do all my playing through modellers / profilers.  90% of my practice is done using headphones (often early in the morning before my family are up).  I use AKG 702s which retail around £100.  They are very comfortable, even for extended periods, and neutral sounding.  The only drawback is that, being open backed, they leak sound so no use for truly silent practice or tracking vocals or acoustic guitar.

WiresDreamDisasters

thecolourbox said:

Minimal unfortunately, I think I got these ones in a swap for a pedal worth about £40 haha so won't really get anything for disposing of them, and any money I spend on this will mean I wouldn't be able to get an amp should I ever need to play anywhere outside the house again.

Not to worry, I'll try the headphone approach instead, hopefully that will fatigue my ears sufficiently to make me want to give it up in favour of a different hobby...

Don't give up.

thecolourbox

Hmm, yeah I have some Sennheiser HD something or others which are supposedly adequate though also I think maybe open back but that doesn't bother me I don't think. I recorded stuff last year and used them and I don't think the criticism I received for the songs was because I'd used them!

I think maybe they may be the best way forward then perhaps, though I will try a Zoom g3 instead of the GSP models and see if that makes any difference but I suspect not as I recall having the same problems with other preamps like the Mesa V Twin, Kingsley Squire, and JHS Twin Twelve pedal.

thecolourbox

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Don't give up.

One person's "giving up" is another persons "moving on"

sweepy

The old Behringer Truth 2031a monitors are good vfm 

Rocker

A small budget is not such a big problem as most hi-fi dealers have storerooms filled with used speakers taken in as trade ins.  Surprisingly good deals can be had, simply ask.

thecolourbox

A quick blast through the zoom G3 last night suggested that it may be a possibility in the short term as using the amp models on there into my Redwirez IR combination of choice on the GSP1101 (Deluxe reverb and supro Thunderbolt) sounded like it had more potential. Strangely though it was the US Blues model on there that worked best, which was a surprise but you have to play with your ears on these things don't you.

Only a quick blast sadly as it took me a while to wire everything up especially after we had to unplug everything for the mahoosive storm the other night. But it could work, and it seems there can be some midi trickery going on to control patches with my midi floor board thing so I'll have a looky see into that

Admittedly it means I'll have to rethink things a bit in order to get a fuzz sound on top of it but should be work-out-able and give me a bit more thump in the monitors. 

Will be trying more so over the weekend, and also with my headphones so will see how it goes

Thanks all

Funkfingers

In the event that you find a guitar processor patch that sounds as you would wish through the Foster PM04 loudspeakers, the chances are that it will sound terrible through professional quality monitors in a well-treated listening room.

Budget headphones should be fine for simple tracking. For critical listening and EQ decisions, you will need something posher with a close to flat frequency response. 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/studio-headphones-0

ToneControl

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Agree with Oct. Sub is pointless for guitars really.

Better speakers with bigger drivers will get you more low-end. Your monitors have a 4" woofer which isn't going to give you enough low end. You could take a look at the Focal Alpha 65's which is what I have or the Alpha 80's. Those have a 6.5" and 8.0" woofer respectively, and will give you oodles of low-end.

But you will definitely want some sort of room treatment too, in order to avoid creating the opposite problem to your current one - too much bass and too much room resonance.

You can build some Rockwool based absorption panels for relatively cheap, and if your room is smallish you might not need that many to get a good effect.

Focal are good
I have CMS 65s and matching sub

Personally I need a least 8 inch drivers before you avoid needing a sub
Mind you I had dual concentric 15  inch Tannoy Ardens for a few years, so my expectations are a bit different to most people

thecolourbox

Funkfingers said:

In the event that you find a guitar processor patch that sounds as you would wish through the Foster PM04 loudspeakers, the chances are that it will sound terrible through professional quality monitors in a well-treated listening room.

Budget headphones should be fine for simple tracking. For critical listening and EQ decisions, you will need something posher with a close to flat frequency response. 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/studio-headphones-0

I take your point but there be no chance of me hearing my noises in a well treated room with professional quality monitors to be fair

Freebird

A pair of Kali LP-6 monitors are on my "cheap 'n cheerful" shopping list.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kali-audio-lp-6

Room correction software is also worth looking at if you ever get to the point where you want to start taking things a little more seriously. However it should be mentioned that the topic of room treatment/enhancement can soon turn into a big black hole