NGD - Avalon L2-320

thomasross20

Pics here from the builder but I can always take more. 
https://boards.wetransfer.com/board/s9uk20i0kg2une03820190426170458/latest

It's a 2017 ex-exhibition guitar. Spruce top and rosewood back & sides. 
I got them to add a clear scratchplate and fit a K&K Pure Mini but opted out of getting a strap button drilled into that lovely wood. 

Only had a brief chance to play it at work but it is very light and rings like a crystal. Set up with 11's as asked. 

Initially I was going to go for an A2-20 (smaller) but this is the Ard Ri range with higher grade tonewoods and everybody was telling me this is the one people gravitate toward when in the workshop - it was also the best deal.. my only reservation was that it is a jumbo but having played it... the size is no issue - it's not big to me at all! 

Here's a link to the guitar on the website (not THE guitar but the same model):
https://www.avalonguitars.com/ard-ri/2320

I did try a bunch of guitars at a local store previous to get an idea of tonewoods. I found mahogany a bit dry, though mahogany with spruce top is good. Quite fancied a rosewood back & sides guitar - there was a good Larrive OM9 meeting this spec but I thought I should get something different. Then you can guess who off here let me know about Avalon! My Larrivee OM-02 already sort of covers the mahogany base - in fact, I prefer my OM-02 to some very expensive mahogany guitars. Next thing was whether to get spruce or cedar top. If you listen to the cedar top sound clips (L1-20, I believe, on that website) it sounds amazing. But maybe too mellow - I like the bell-like crystal tones (and sound doesn't age like spruce does - correct me if wrong - what you hear with cedar is almost what you get). Cedar I read also is a softer wood so dents easier, but is also tougher with regard to wood contraction and expansion due to relative humidity level changes. 

Anyway - there you have it! Might have to sell my GS Mini as 3 acoustics is too much!

VimFuego

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

TimmyO

Very well played sir :-) 

TimmyO

VimFuego said:

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

I've actually been mulling looking for something cedar on and off for tthelast couple of years - I think I know what you mean about the one trick but I also think it's one I like - what I THINK that trick is (interested to hear others take on this) giving up more volume for light attack, and not getting much louder when you hit it harder - so kind of smoothing everything out - which for my terrible fingerstyle technique might be good lol 

thomasross20

On the Avalon site, the cedar top and rosewood back sides is stated as being great for fingerstyle and the sound clips certainly sound great...

Thanks, guys!
Special mention to @ToneControl who let me know about them and answered a tonne of my questions!

Now I must admitm I was a little worried because I've tried some very expensive guitars and largely preferred my Larrivee OM-02. The fear is over. This thing sounds immense... it is so rich, and VERY loud. It looks big in the mirror but holding it to play is a joy. When I went back to my Larrivee, I actually caught myself wondering about Avalon mahogany guitars as the Larrivee just isn't as rich as the Avalon. The Avalon really sounds absolutely amazing - can't put it into words. Strummed is its strength and fingerstyle still great on it. God, when I went back to the GS Mini it just felt like a toy. Even the Larrivee, to an extent. The thing just oozes class - feels great, looks great and the sound is a cut above. I did give it a little strum at work and a few folk commented on how great it sounded (@ToneControl you should have bought this!). 

I hate to say but as cracking as my Larrivee is, it doesn't have the same dimension in terms of sound. Then again, it is a belter of a guitar. And I must admit, mahogany/sapele back and sides is still a winner for fingerstyle. I'm not saying it sounds better than the Avalon, but with those woods for back and sides, the notes really ring out that bit clearer (less harmonics) - which is why I found myself thinking about an Avalon mahogany guitar eek lol. 

Well impressed. Could have gone so wrong but has turned out great - I sort of wish I'd gone to the factory now to try others out...

earwighoney

thomasross20 said:

I did try a bunch of guitars at a local store previous to get an idea of tonewoods. I found mahogany a bit dry, though mahogany with spruce top is good. Quite fancied a rosewood back & sides guitar - there was a good Larrive OM9 meeting this spec but I thought I should get something different. Then you can guess who off here let me know about Avalon! My Larrivee OM-02 already sort of covers the mahogany base - in fact, I prefer my OM-02 to some very expensive mahogany guitars. Next thing was whether to get spruce or cedar top. If you listen to the cedar top sound clips (L1-20, I believe, on that website) it sounds amazing. But maybe too mellow - I like the bell-like crystal tones (and sound doesn't age like spruce does - correct me if wrong - what you hear with cedar is almost what you get). Cedar I read also is a softer wood so dents easier, but is also tougher with regard to wood contraction and expansion due to relative humidity level changes. 

I have a very nice guitar with a cedar soundboard that did improve with a bit of playing but not to the extent of a spruce guitar though.  As for being more stable to humidity changes, I really couldn't give an affirmative response regarding it.  Cedar is on the soft side of things, good for nylon strings and fingerstyle, but could be a bit soft for heavy strummers.  As for cedar being mellow - that can be a good thing if it's coupled with a very bright sounding back and side set.  Mine has African Padauk which is very bright, works well with cedar. 

Superb NGD though Tommy.  Here's a pat on the back from me for your fine work. 

thomasross20

Maybe that's why cedar and rosewood is recommended by them for fingerstyle.. 

Honestly it's like I just got a Ferrari or something - this was a big risk for somebody who a) rarely buys guitars, b) said dread's were too big (!), c) only ever tries guitars out in person... but I couldn't be happier. Absolutely amazing, honestly, can't believe it  

I'm sort of disappointed now  because although the Larrivee is cracking, I want to see if Avalon models of a similar nature have that sparkle (I don't doubt it!) because it's like I lose a dimension. In fact there's one available but I need to behave myself... 

Thanks!!

ToneControl

TimmyO said:

VimFuego said:

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

I've actually been mulling looking for something cedar on and off for tthelast couple of years - I think I know what you mean about the one trick but I also think it's one I like - what I THINK that trick is (interested to hear others take on this) giving up more volume for light attack, and not getting much louder when you hit it harder - so kind of smoothing everything out - which for my terrible fingerstyle technique might be good lol 

Have you tried redwood?

ToneControl

thomasross20 said:

On the Avalon site, the cedar top and rosewood back sides is stated as being great for fingerstyle and the sound clips certainly sound great...

Thanks, guys!
Special mention to @ToneControl who let me know about them and answered a tonne of my questions!

Now I must admitm I was a little worried because I've tried some very expensive guitars and largely preferred my Larrivee OM-02. The fear is over. This thing sounds immense... it is so rich, and VERY loud. It looks big in the mirror but holding it to play is a joy. When I went back to my Larrivee, I actually caught myself wondering about Avalon mahogany guitars as the Larrivee just isn't as rich as the Avalon. The Avalon really sounds absolutely amazing - can't put it into words. Strummed is its strength and fingerstyle still great on it. God, when I went back to the GS Mini it just felt like a toy. Even the Larrivee, to an extent. The thing just oozes class - feels great, looks great and the sound is a cut above. I did give it a little strum at work and a few folk commented on how great it sounded (@ToneControl you should have bought this!). 

I hate to say but as cracking as my Larrivee is, it doesn't have the same dimension in terms of sound. Then again, it is a belter of a guitar. And I must admit, mahogany/sapele back and sides is still a winner for fingerstyle. I'm not saying it sounds better than the Avalon, but with those woods for back and sides, the notes really ring out that bit clearer (less harmonics) - which is why I found myself thinking about an Avalon mahogany guitar eek lol. 

Well impressed. Could have gone so wrong but has turned out great - I sort of wish I'd gone to the factory now to try others out...

I was so sure you'd like it I was ready to buy it off you if you didn't
Well done for pulling the trigger on it

 Give it a few weeks and you will find your playing has become subtly more expressive, and you'll feel impeded on most normal guitars. It's like being bought fine wines for a while then going back to normal stuff.

thomasross20

Haven't tried redwood... But I will try yours some point! 

ToneControl

thomasross20 said:

I hate to say but as cracking as my Larrivee is, it doesn't have the same dimension in terms of sound. Then again, it is a belter of a guitar. And I must admit, mahogany/sapele back and sides is still a winner for fingerstyle. I'm not saying it sounds better than the Avalon, but with those woods for back and sides, the notes really ring out that bit clearer (less harmonics) - which is why I found myself thinking about an Avalon mahogany guitar eek lol. 

the added complex harmonics on the Avalon will probably be also due to the bracing pattern
You can get very lively Mahogany spruce Avalons, I have a D2-10 that has plenty of overtones

Your one has a AXE bracing - the normal Avalon bracing pattern
The Avalon AXX bracing on the Americanas has less overtones - more like early 20th century USA guitars
In fact the D340A left in the Avalon showroom is now the best sounding guitar in there!

VimFuego

ToneControl said:

TimmyO said:

VimFuego said:

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

I've actually been mulling looking for something cedar on and off for tthelast couple of years - I think I know what you mean about the one trick but I also think it's one I like - what I THINK that trick is (interested to hear others take on this) giving up more volume for light attack, and not getting much louder when you hit it harder - so kind of smoothing everything out - which for my terrible fingerstyle technique might be good lol 

Have you tried redwood?

jeez, buy him dinner 1st?

thomasross20

Hahahaha  
Oh man don't get me started on mahogany ones... or redwood ones...

TimmyO

ToneControl said:

TimmyO said:

VimFuego said:

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

I've actually been mulling looking for something cedar on and off for tthelast couple of years - I think I know what you mean about the one trick but I also think it's one I like - what I THINK that trick is (interested to hear others take on this) giving up more volume for light attack, and not getting much louder when you hit it harder - so kind of smoothing everything out - which for my terrible fingerstyle technique might be good lol 

Have you tried redwood?

I haven't no - what's the general schtick with them? 

ToneControl

TimmyO said:

ToneControl said:

TimmyO said:

VimFuego said:

that looks fantastic. I sometimes feel I'd like a cedar topped (my mandolin is cedar topped and that works well for a high pitched instrument like mando as it evens out the mellowness of the cedar) and I've played some fantastic cedar topped axes, but they're a bit (and I'll probably upset people here) a bit one trick pony, IMO. 

I've actually been mulling looking for something cedar on and off for tthelast couple of years - I think I know what you mean about the one trick but I also think it's one I like - what I THINK that trick is (interested to hear others take on this) giving up more volume for light attack, and not getting much louder when you hit it harder - so kind of smoothing everything out - which for my terrible fingerstyle technique might be good lol 

Have you tried redwood?

I haven't no - what's the general schtick with them? 

"cedar on steroids"
seems to be that kind of sound, but more range

BigLicks67

It's hard to keep up with all these new acoustics! Happy NGD.

thomasross20

Man, everybody who has heard the Avalon compared to the Larrivee has instantly said it's a much better sound. 

Thing is... I don't know how much of that is due to the size (jumbo) and woods (spruce & rosewood) as opposed to the quality.
This was vs the OM-02 (spruce & sapele) Larrivee (can't believe these are £1100+ now - near double what I paid new!) . 

Not that I'm planning on buying another guitar so soon (dear lord...) but there are some decent deals on mahogany Avalons... and rose wood Larrivees! *hides*

thomasross20

So today I tried a  

Lowdown F32C. This was great. My preferred one out of those I tried. I'd say not as good as the Avalon I got, doesn't have as much "sparkle"

Larrivee om09: great guitar for the money but I've got the rosewood back and sides thing covered by the Avalon. 

Martin om28 reimagined. Quality, bass was deeper than the Larrivee and sounded great. Maybe not as "open" a sound but a very nice guitar. 

thomasross20

So I decided to sell the GS Mini e-Koa. 
It just couldn't stand up to the other two. 


Decided to do a very short demo of both the Avalon (L2-230: spruce & rosewood) and the Larrivee (OM02: spruce & sapele). First is the Avalon - then it's the Larrivee:
https://soundcloud.com/tommysixstring/acoustics