Anyone use Convolution reverb?

Branshen

For those who don't know what it is, see the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=716Ho1E-7Io

For people who do use it, how do you like to use it? One single instance on a send and route all tracks through it? Does it make spaces sound more real? Would appreciate any thoughts as I'm going to try using it on my latest mix.

octatonic

Yes I use it.

I generally use one global reverb that I pipe things to in various amounts and a couple of drum reverbs.
I'd suggest being careful about overusing reverbs though- it can mush up quite easily.

For tracks that have been recorded in excellent rooms you might not need much reverb at all.
Don't ignore algorithmic reverbs either- especially things like Izotope (ex-Exponential) Phoenixverb, Numbus, R2 or R4.

Branshen

octatonic said:

Yes I use it.

I generally use one global reverb that I pipe things to in various amounts and a couple of drum reverbs.
I'd suggest being careful about overusing reverbs though- it can mush up quite easily.

For tracks that have been recorded in excellent rooms you might not need much reverb at all.
Don't ignore algorithmic reverbs either- especially things like Izotope (ex-Exponential) Phoenixverb, Numbus, R2 or R4.

Thanks for the tip, I reckon I'm fairly reserved and controlled about reverb. I mostly use it to add ambience and blend the parts of the song together in a space. 

 I have always used algorithmic reverb, I've mostly made do with the stock plugins in cubase (when I still used it) and Ableton. I'm not sure if it's my programming ability, they added ambience and space to my mixes, but they've never sounded good to me and wow-ed me.

I have used Xenoverb, which is the only external plugin I use for reverb, and it sounds better to my ears, but the presets and effect overall is wilder and thus harder to incorporate in a regular mix. 

Hence, my little hunt for something better. I'm just looking for something that will work well for my music and give it more life. Tell me if I'm being daft..

octatonic

Convolution reverb is one way to do it.
Another way is to use two algorithmic reverbs with near identical settings in parallel with one another.

One thing I do a lot with reverbs is compress them and high pass filter them (around 100hz).
Low frequency reverb can mud things up a lot.
Another trick is to automate reverb levels so that the reverb is raised 1-3db in the quiet bits of the songs compared to the loud bits.

Branshen

octatonic said:

Another way is to use two algorithmic reverbs with near identical settings in parallel with one another.

What's the logic/reasoning behind this?

octatonic said:

Another trick is to automate reverb levels so that the reverb is raised 1-3db in the quiet bits of the songs compared to the loud bits.

Interesting tip. I could probably hook the reverb to a gate and have it do that automatically..

WiresDreamDisasters

I use shit tons of reverb to hide my playing mistakes.

TheBigDipper

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I use shit tons of reverb to hide my playing mistakes.

Me too. It doesn't work.  Still, the best art always includes unintended actions and their consequences. I hope... 

Cirrus

Used to quite a lot, to simulate real acoustic spaces so mostly things like drum room reverb, and it is great for that kind of thing. However, last couple of years I've tended to go for decent algorithmic reverbs such as the Valhalla stuff. Probably just because I finally found good algorithmic reverbs after years of only having access to bad ones...

octatonic

Branshen said:

octatonic said:

Another way is to use two algorithmic reverbs with near identical settings in parallel with one another.

What's the logic/reasoning behind this?

Essentially it smooths out any graininess you might get from an algorithmic reverb.

Branshen

Cirrus said:

Used to quite a lot, to simulate real acoustic spaces so mostly things like drum room reverb, and it is great for that kind of thing. However, last couple of years I've tended to go for decent algorithmic reverbs such as the Valhalla stuff. Probably just because I finally found good algorithmic reverbs after years of only having access to bad ones...

Getting Valhalla Room is something that admittedly intrigues me.. I am chasing that "professional" sound, and I believe it is highly regarded as a reverb plugin.

Really not interested in spending time and effort in A-B-ing different reverbs.. Hmmmm. 

Cirrus

Room is good, but I have to admit that once I got Vintage, I started using that a lot more for the fun stuff. Room is great but part of what makes it great is this awesome, full low end. And when you start to tame that to avoid muddying up the mix... it stops sounding so great. Whereas vintage... it's the midrange in the decay and the brilliant modulation that I love about it. So, Room tends to be reserved for situations where I won't need to tame it much.

If we're talking specifics, I also love Waves Abbey Road Plates. Only problem is that it MURDERS CPUs.

oaf

You might want to have a play with Reverberate 2:

https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/reverberate-2

there's a 30 day free trial. I see that it's now priced in USD despite being developed in the UK.

There are often good discounts to be had on the price during Black Friday though if you're on a budget.

I think the newer products (Seventh Heaven/Plates) require iLok (which may/may not be an issue for you).

LastMantra

Are we talking about a natural sounding reverb vs an unnatural sounding reverb (spring, plate etc.) or are you trying to recreate the reverb of a specific environment? Surely you basically use a convulsion reverb in the same way you would use an algorithmic reverb to create a roomy sound? Or am I missing something? 

Branshen

LastMantra said:

Are we talking about a natural sounding reverb vs an unnatural sounding reverb (spring, plate etc.) or are you trying to recreate the reverb of a specific environment? Surely you basically use a convulsion reverb in the same way you would use an algorithmic reverb to create a roomy sound? Or am I missing something? 

Is Convolution reverb more roomy than a room algorithm? 

LastMantra

Branshen said:

LastMantra said:

Are we talking about a natural sounding reverb vs an unnatural sounding reverb (spring, plate etc.) or are you trying to recreate the reverb of a specific environment? Surely you basically use a convulsion reverb in the same way you would use an algorithmic reverb to create a roomy sound? Or am I missing something? 

Is Convolution reverb more roomy than a room algorithm? 

  

Cirrus

LastMantra said:

Are we talking about a natural sounding reverb vs an unnatural sounding reverb (spring, plate etc.) or are you trying to recreate the reverb of a specific environment? Surely you basically use a convulsion reverb in the same way you would use an algorithmic reverb to create a roomy sound? Or am I missing something? 

Well, if you genuinely want it to sound like a real, convincing room, it's actually pretty hard to do with a reverb. Personally, even in a middling to average sounding acoustic space I feel like I can do more with a real room ambience, recorded with a mic at the time of performance, than I can with a flotilla of good reverbs set to do the same job. Real room ambience can be mixed and processed to add excitement, size and character to percussion. It's very hard to do the same with a "faked" room reverb, which tends to have a different effect on how parts sit in mixes. It just so happens that for a long time in the plugin world, convolution reverbs got closer to the real reverb thing than algorithms. And even with a great algo reverb like Valhalla Room, which really does sound good, I've not been able to use compression and distortion on the result to make drums sound bigger in the same way that I've regularly done with room mics.

Branshen

Caved in and bought Valhalla room. Didn't want to spend time auditioning different reverbs and just wanted to get down to mixing quickly. I'll explore convultation in the future if I ever feel the need to expand further... 

LastMantra

I suppose one reason for using it (other than it being 'better') would be to make all parts sound like they were recorded in the same room? If you are going for a "live band" sound. Suppose that's largely what room type reverb is used for. To gel the parts together so to speak. 
I find treating the instruments individually can be better though. So they don't all sit on top of each other. 
As has been said a bit of eq is good to tidy things up. At least a bit off the lows and low mids.

I'm not saying this as any kind of expert btw. Trying to understand these things myself. Mixing truly is an art form in it's own right.

Heartfeltdawn

@Branshen if you want to explore convolution reverb, have a go with this. 

https://impulserecord.com/project/convology-xt-plugin/

It's a bit of a retro UI but I quite like it. Reminds me of Gigasampler for some reason. 

Branshen

Heartfeltdawn said:

@Branshen if you want to explore convolution reverb, have a go with this. 

https://impulserecord.com/project/convology-xt-plugin/

It's a bit of a retro UI but I quite like it. Reminds me of Gigasampler for some reason. 

Cheers. Will keep it in mind.