Guitars that cut through the mix

thebreeze

I quite often hear people say, "this guitar really cuts through the mix" or "this guitar can really cut through", even retailers say it their blurb sometimes as a sales pitch.  

Isn't another way of looking at it though that the levels aren't right or that you/our colleagues in the band aren't really listening to what's going on or serving the song properly?

What do you think?  Do guitars need to "cut through"?

octatonic

Yes and they way you do it is to turn up the treble and turn down the bass compared to your 'at home' sound.
Also a bit less gain.
It isn't rocket surgery.

thebreeze

If you've got two guitarists (maybe more) who's meant to be "cutting through"?

thebreeze

Should everyone be playing Teles on the bridge pickup?

stratman3142

I think it's more about being heard without being too loud and without masking other instruments.

thebreeze

Yes, I agree, which suggests its more about getting the levels right and playing thoughtfully rather than having a guitar to do it.  I've not got that much experience of playing in bands but I find it a bit frustrating not to use some of the sounds that work at home.  Maybe that's just naive though and sounds just have to be different in a live setting.

PolarityMan

thebreeze said:

If you've got two guitarists (maybe more) who's meant to be "cutting through"?

The one im playing obviously.

thebreeze

Haha - exactly.

LastMantra

thebreeze said:

Yes, I agree, which suggests its more about getting the levels right and playing thoughtfully rather than having a guitar to do it.  I've not got that much experience of playing in bands but I find it a bit frustrating not to use some of the sounds that work at home.  Maybe that's just naive though and sounds just have to be different in a live setting.

The sounds I use at home have changed since I got a looper pedal.

Danny1969

If you want a guitar that cuts through a dense mix then something with EMG's is a good bet ..... not the nicest tone but they really do slice through. It's all about upper mid and definition which those pickups have in spades.  

maltingsaudio

It’s not  the guitar that cuts through its its tone and the amount of space in the mix for it. For example identical acoustic guitars strumming an open g chord will sound similar, if however one of the strummers plays a DShape on the 6 fret which is g  then you will hear both guitars with the guitar being played at the 6th seeming louder.

octatonic

thebreeze said:

If you've got two guitarists (maybe more) who's meant to be "cutting through"?

You find your spot in the mix- a way of complimenting the other guitarist's part, the other instruments- locking in together and supporting the vocal, which is the most important thing in the song anyway.

As an example, go listen to Izzy Stradlin' on Appetite for Destruction.
Excellent guitarist who is in the pocket- you can hear him playing but he doesn't get in the way of the song.
Neither does Slash for that matter.

Kittyfrisk

This'll do it 

Grangousier

if however one of the strummers plays a DShape on the 6 fret which is g  then you will hear both guitars with the guitar being played at the 6th seeming louder.

Surely if they were playing a D barre at the 6th fret it would be F#? 

Though if you had two guitarists and one was playing G and the other was playing F# you'd definitely be able to tell them apart. 

Lestratcaster

Grangousier said:

if however one of the strummers plays a DShape on the 6 fret which is g  then you will hear both guitars with the guitar being played at the 6th seeming louder.

Surely if they were playing a D barre at the 6th fret it would be F#? 

Though if you had two guitarists and one was playing G and the other was playing F# you'd definitely be able to tell them apart. 

Yeah it should be the 7th fret (with the root note on the 8th)

Sassafras

The amp cuts through, not the guitar.

ICBM

Sassafras said:

The amp cuts through, not the guitar.

And the guitar up to a point. A Tele on the bridge pickup will, much more than a Les Paul with overwound pickups.

It’s to do with frequencies and dynamics.

stratman3142 said:

I think it's more about being heard without being too loud and without masking other instruments.

This.

But you also don’t want to overdo it. A lot of guitarists who want to ‘cut through’ end up being too loud and shrill.

skullfunkerry

Picking up on what people are saying about gain and tone... I used to be in a metal band where I was using an Orange Rockerverb and the other guitarist was using a Marshall Valvestate head. My sound was pretty thick and middly; his was quite trebly. It worked brilliantly, we sounded great. Then he upgraded to a Peavey 6505 and we sounded a lot more muddled, because his amp was more bass and middly, so we were both in the same part of the mix and you couldn't tell us apart.

On gain: I replaced my Rockerverb with a Dark Terror and the first time we gigged with it I couldn't hear myself even though I was plenty loud... I knocked the gain back a little bit and hey presto, there I was

thebreeze

Very interesting.  I hadn't considered the amps but that makes total sense, particularly about the differences in character/tonal ranges of the different guitarists and musicians.

ICBM

thebreeze said:

Very interesting.  I hadn't considered the amps but that makes total sense, particularly about the differences in character/tonal ranges of the different guitarists and musicians.

Mixing by EQ and dynamics is far more effective than by volume - if you have two similar sounds, the slightly louder one completely dominates, and it can only take a small difference, so it’s difficult to get a balance where you can hear both equally. It’s especially bad if the sounds are very compressed since the quieter one cannot peak above the louder one and just ends up inaudible - as skullfunkerry found.

But if they’re different EQ, especially if the ranges don’t overlap much - eg one is scooped, and the other is all midrange - then you will hear both clearly almost irrespective of their relative volumes. The more similar the EQ - and all guitars are mostly mids, up to a point - the more useful dynamics are, so it’s a combination of the two. Using less gain will give more dynamics.

chris78

I play mainly single coil guitars through a tone king imperial. The other guitarist in our band is constantly complaining his les Paul Marshall gets lost and he can only hear me, even though he’s generally louder.
He’s now gone out and got a tele so will be interesting to see if it makes a difference or if it’s the amp