Best way to record gigs...?

chrishill901

So I'm after a portable multitrack recorder so I can record band rehearsals and gigs to get some decent quality promo stuff. I need at least 8 XLR inputs but most of what I see on the market now are little 2-in 8 trackers. I've been looking and all I can seem to find is the Zoom R16/R24 and the Tascam DP24SD/DP32SD. These units appear to be extremely old - has there been nothing since? The Zoom appeals more than the Tascam as it seems to have been geared more towards working with a DAW to edit. I'm relatively handy in a DAW for video mixing/mastering so I don't mind that but I don't want to have to bring a laptop down to rehearsal, plus I only have a Scarlett 2i2 and my laptop is pretty old.

Is there anything else out there that would allow me to record 8 XLR inputs simultaneously? In a totally ideal world I'd want a rack mountable recorder with at least 8 ins that will just let me record the signal and then put it in a DAW but as far as I'm aware nothing exists in rack form? My experience is video so i naturally looked at field recorders but to get the number of inputs I need they're nearly £1000...

Are portable multitracks still a thing? Are there any other solutions? Are people just using computers now?

bbill335

All I can say is that the zoom is great for tracking a band, and giving you stems to then drop in your DAW. And then it also works as an interface over USB with decent mic preamps. 

chrishill901

bbill335 said:

All I can say is that the zoom is great for tracking a band, and giving you stems to then drop in your DAW. And then it also works as an interface over USB with decent mic preamps. 

Thanks for your input! So the reason the zoom hasn’t been updated in like 10 years is because it doesn’t need it? Nothing has bettered it?

revsorg

I think a Behringer X Air XR18 plugged into a laptop would give you a modern solution:

https://www.google.com/search?q=XR-18+Record+Live

If your laptop is old you might be able to breathe new life into it by installing an SSD, if it doesn't already have one.

chrishill901

revsorg said:

I think a Behringer X Air XR18 plugged into a laptop would give you a modern solution:

https://www.google.com/search?q=XR-18+Record+Live

If your laptop is old you might be able to breathe new life into it by installing an SSD, if it doesn't already have one.

Just looked at the XR18 and it looks great only it would rely on having the laptop, setting up a project in a DAW etc and my laptop is old (already has an SSD). I just checked out the XR12 and it is almost exactly what I want as it records too via USB but it only records stereo, not every channel! An XR12 capable of recording each channel would be ideal, it would tick every box...

chrishill901

Minus the rackmounting this seems to do it all... Anyone have experiences with the Zoom Livetrack L12?

https://zoom.co.jp/products/production-recording/live-sound-recording/livetrak-l-12

Edit: The livetrak l20r does everything I want, is rackmountable but is £650 and I'm only really wanting to record a few rehearsals... Zoom r16 perhaps!

steven70

chrishill901 said:

bbill335 said:

All I can say is that the zoom is great for tracking a band, and giving you stems to then drop in your DAW. And then it also works as an interface over USB with decent mic preamps. 

Thanks for your input! So the reason the zoom hasn’t been updated in like 10 years is because it doesn’t need it? Nothing has bettered it?

I don't think the reason is that nothing has bettered it - probably more that the market has moved on.

People tend to use other solutions now. I would say if something inexpensive does a job for you and at least allows some interaction with a DAW go for it. I have used both a Zoom and a Tascam fairly recently for recording 'live' rehearsals and both were fine and easy to use.

steamabacus

chrishill901 said:

So I'm after a portable multitrack recorder so I can record band rehearsals and gigs to get some decent quality promo stuff. I need at least 8 XLR inputs but most of what I see on the market now are little 2-in 8 trackers. I've been looking and all I can seem to find is the Zoom R16/R24 and the Tascam DP24SD/DP32SD. These units appear to be extremely old - has there been nothing since? The Zoom appeals more than the Tascam as it seems to have been geared more towards working with a DAW to edit. I'm relatively handy in a DAW for video mixing/mastering so I don't mind that but I don't want to have to bring a laptop down to rehearsal, plus I only have a Scarlett 2i2 and my laptop is pretty old.

Is there anything else out there that would allow me to record 8 XLR inputs simultaneously? In a totally ideal world I'd want a rack mountable recorder with at least 8 ins that will just let me record the signal and then put it in a DAW but as far as I'm aware nothing exists in rack form? My experience is video so i naturally looked at field recorders but to get the number of inputs I need they're nearly £1000...

Are portable multitracks still a thing? Are there any other solutions? Are people just using computers now?

Doesn't quite tick all your boxes (not XLR in) and now discontinued but consider a Cymatics Audio LR16

I picked up one of these for a friend's home studio set up a couple of years ago for under £200 [edit - it was £160 from eBay]. There are some quirks - will need some mono-stereo jack adapters for each input if used standalone rather than in a desk's channel inserts - and you will need an external usb hard drive (cost peanuts though). Full 16 tracks at once recording.

Very basic but therefore very simple to use (arm and press record). I engineered using one of these for a DIY ep recording and it worked flawlessly for capturing 'live' rhythm tracks (drums, bass, guitar, guide vocal) to be overdubbed/mixed later on a computer DAW.

[edit] Here's the ep, all recorded on an LR16 in a converted terraced house living room, drums mic'd, bass & (anti-)guitar DI'd, guide vocal. Exported to computer DAW and overdubbed vocals, mixed and mastered.

https://thebrouhaha.bandcamp.com/album/yellow

Legionreturns

As luck would have it, I recently upgraded my desk to an XR18, so I have a Zoom R16 sitting around not getting used. If you're interested in it, give me a shout. It's in a fitted flight case too. 

Stuckfast

There's a smaller version of the Zoom Livetrak called the L-12 which is a bit less expensive. Those things are great btw.

andy_k

Cant beat R16 for versatility, used mine as interface to record 8 mics into Reaper at a few rehearsals, runs on batteries too. Handy for an impromptu setup, if you carry leads and mics with you.

Stuckfast

I have both -- the L-12 is much better than the R16 in pretty much every way except that you can't run it on batteries. The L-12 actually sounds good too!

Musicwolf

I bought an L-12 last Christmas, I really rate it.  8 mic + 2 x stereo line.  I use it in the practice room, and even at gigs, to capture multitrack recordings to SD Card.  There’s a really nice feature in that each time you start and stop a recording it saves to a new folder which makes things much easier when you are trying to juggle playing, live mixing and recording.  When I get home I just transfer the tracks into Cubase for editing and mixing.

With 5 aux mixes / headphone amps it’s also great for making ‘proper’ recordings with each band member having their own mix.

chrishill901

So I've underestimated how little processing power it takes to record 8 tracks. Just because my Macbook chunters trying to edit HD footage doesn't mean it isn't capable of recording with a DAW. So with this in mind what are the best budget options? I have looked at the Behringer UMC1820 which looks capable enough and cheap, but I could get an R16 for the same price (used) so is this still the best option? I basically need

Minimum 8 inputs, preferably all with the option of phantom

Ability to function as interface

Ability to adjust mix for headphones without affecting level recorded in DAW so I can send guitar heavy feed to IEMs (I know I can do this in the DAW but my latency will likely be quite high when recording as my macbook is coming up 8 years old. This feature isn't a deal breaker)

Ability to record stereo on unit itself without laptop (for gigs I'd probably just take a stereo feed from the desk and record that)

Preferably rack form factor but not a deal breaker

Everything points to the Zoom Livetrak L20 as it ticks every box but I can't justify the price. I was really looking for a solution at £150 but I appreciate there are no options at that price range.

Spec wise the R16 still seems a logical choice but apparently the pre-amps are poor and there are only 2 phantom channels and I potentially need 3. The Behringer UMC1820 seems like a decent option if I forgo it having the ability to record to the unit itself. I don't really want to bring a laptop to a gig to record though but other than that it seems a sensible choice and I can continue just feeding my IEMs directly from my Kemper.

Modellista

R16 is pretty good. The preamps aren't bad in any obvious way although I doubt they'd stand up to a serious piece of studio gear in terms of specs.  I would have thought perfectly acceptable for your purposes.  It's a nice compact and lightweight unit compared to the L12 which looks massive in comparison.  And if you're lucky you'll get one on eBay for £150.  Seems like a no-brainer to me, although I am now lusting after an L12.  Yes it only has two phantom powered inputs.

Roland

chrishill901 said:

revsorg said:

I think a Behringer X Air XR18 plugged into a laptop would give you a modern solution:

https://www.google.com/search?q=XR-18+Record+Live

If your laptop is old you might be able to breathe new life into it by installing an SSD, if it doesn't already have one.

Just looked at the XR18 and it looks great only it would rely on having the laptop, setting up a project in a DAW etc and my laptop is old (already has an SSD). I just checked out the XR12 and it is almost exactly what I want as it records too via USB but it only records stereo, not every channel! An XR12 capable of recording each channel would be ideal, it would tick every box...

If you can mic up everything then an XR18 and a Laptop is the “best” way. It will need a fair amount of disk space. It takes us about 10 minutes to save off a one hour set.

andy_k

I think R16 offers far more bang for buck, I dont think there is another 8 mic in / interface anywhere near the price point. Phantom power to only 2 tracks is not really an issue, 48v supplies are pretty common and cheap right?
For a one off session, I would use it as an interface, and record into Reaper on a laptop, but for a regular repeat session I would record into the R16, and dump files into DAW later. I have tried out the surface control with my sessions, but dont really have the working environment to use it much, but it is an option.
Think Zoom did an updated version a few years back, even this cut out a few features from the R16, if you see one for £150 it should be a no brainer really, like having a swiss army knife.

Stuckfast

Compared with the L series the R16 does still have a few advantages: it's smaller and lighter, it runs on batteries, it has some basic editing built in and it can act as a DAW controller. But to my mind those are massively outweighed by the advantages of the L-12: much better preamps with a huge gain range, a more conventional digital mixer that you can use for live sound, five headphone outs etc. A really nice feature is that it can record to a DAW and to an SD card simultaneously for safety. That has saved my arse at least once when I wrongly assigned an input in Pro Tools...

Musicwolf

I've used the R16 (my old bass player had one), I own an L-12 and I also have a Tascam 16x08 + laptop set up.  No experience of the XR18 but I've read the specs.

If you already have a laptop / DAW then I wouldn't bother with the R16.  The pre-amps aren't so great and it's more expensive than the Tascam (but, of course, you need to already have the laptop).  The monitoring capabilities of the R16 are very basic (single mix)

The L-12 is great for unobtrusive recording.  you can set up 5 monitor mixes and it's all configured so that you just hit play + record and then stop and everything is saved to folders.

That said, if I didn't already own the L-12 I'd be looking very seriously at the Behringer as it has the most flexibility and seems to offer extremely good value for money

chrishill901

Thank you all for your input. While the merits of the XR18 and L12 most certainly outweigh the R16 on paper I think there is an important consideration; I'm not after perfection, just something rough and ready that will give me 'good enough' for now. With this in mind I'm leaning toward the R16 although I'm sure there will be instances where I wish I'd paid more.

My only reservation is how difficult it would be to hook things up to the R16 as well as the FOH - presumably I'd need powered splitters for the vocals etc? With this in mind the XR18/L12 makes more sense because it would be the main mixer, although I'm unsure how happy venues would be about this, especially if we weren't the only band. I think in gig instances I'd probably settle for a stereo out from FOH - the main purpose of recording is just to get some stuff to put on facebook and for us to be able to evaluate.

Musicwolf

If you are using the house PA then it's not so straight forward, not to say totally impractical, to make a multitrack recording unless the house PA has a built in facility (i.e. they are already using something like the Behringer).

You maybe better off looking at something like this;

https://www.zoom-uk.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h4n-handy-recorder