Fender Princeton 65 DSP (Solid State) - late 90s - any good?

joetele

The local guitar shop has had one of these sat looking dusty and sad for a couple of years now, priced at £150. 

Out of morbid curiosity I asked to try it out, and was really pleasantly surprised. 

First off, the bad - the gain channel is the usual whereby it doesn't really sound very good but at some settings it gave a bit of transparency and would be nice for a garage rock band. I was quite drawn to it, subjectively.  And most of the onboard effects were distinctly average except for the reverb and trem (as you'd expect from Fender I suppose). 

But the good: 
- It is LOUD. Even at 2 on the volume.
- The clean tone is stupendously good. Possibly a bit trebly but that can be altered using the tone controls. It was sparkly, spanky and chimey, very Fender-like and much nicer than my Katana or some of the other solid states I've had. Subjective of course but this is a really nice Fender clean on a budget - actually prefer it to my old Peavey Bandit. 
- It takes pedals quite well, which is a boon for me. 
- It looks the part
- the shop owner said he'd sell it to me for £70

I'm tempted to get one just to use for the clean channel at band practice. 

Anyone have any thoughts on whether these are any good? Is the QC a bit iffy or OK? Any pedals it doesn't like? What's the headroom like on the clean channel? Is £70 alright? 

Tagging @ICBM as I feel like you're the first port of call on most amp-related opinions  

ICBM

£70 is an absolute steal for how good it is. £150 is maybe a bit optimistic even in a shop, but not that much. They’re also reliable.

You can get decent light-breakup sounds out of the overdrive channel if you’re careful too, although they certainly do go harsh and fizzy very easily.

I genuinely don’t understand why really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps are so overlooked compared to both modellers and even cheap valve amps, but they are...

Andy79

If it sounds good it IS good 

p90fool

They really are nice amps if you treat them as single channel (like all the best amps). They can feel a little spiky at gig volume and have the usual narrow EQ sweet spot common to most SS amps from around then, and don't be fooled by the volume pot taper giving you most of the available volume low on the dial - they're not that loud. 

But they're very usable, and although they really don't have quite the feel at volume of a decent valve amp, they're a revelation after class D modellers. 

My failsafe test for cheapo amp quality is to cut into the speaker wiring and plug it into a 2x12 with favourite speakers, it's amazing how many great combos are handicapped by bad speaker choice. 

joetele

Cheers chaps - I would probably consider replacing the speaker at some point, but I really loved the clean channel and the bass response on it, even the feel of it sat next to the amp - was genuinely impressive. I'm quite tempted at £70 - just need to start the process of persuading my wife...

ICBM

p90fool said:

My failsafe test for cheapo amp quality is to cut into the speaker wiring and plug it into a 2x12 with favourite speakers

You don't even need to do that with these - just pull the push-connectors off the speaker and attach them to a spare Cliff type 1/4" jack - they fit on the terminals perfectly.

joetele

ICBM said:

p90fool said:

My failsafe test for cheapo amp quality is to cut into the speaker wiring and plug it into a 2x12 with favourite speakers

You don't even need to do that with these - just pull the push-connectors off the speaker and attach them to a spare Cliff type 1/4" jack - they fit on the terminals perfectly.

Does this effectively mean I could connect it to a 4x12 cab at the practice room? 

ICBM

joetele said:

Does this effectively mean I could connect it to a 4x12 cab at the practice room? 

Yes. Just make sure the push-connectors are tight enough that they can't easily slip off the terminals, and that it can't touch anything metal (like the speaker frame in the combo) and short. A bit of tape around it might be a good idea.

joetele

ICBM said:

joetele said:

Does this effectively mean I could connect it to a 4x12 cab at the practice room? 

Yes. Just make sure the push-connectors are tight enough that they can't easily slip off the terminals, and that it can't touch anything metal (like the speaker frame in the combo) and short. A bit of tape around it might be a good idea.

Cheers. I feel like it might have enough volume in it for practice anyway - it's just me, the drummer, and a lot of pedals. 

EDIT: Just as an aside, I tried it with a Squier Classic Vibe Tele which had the wide range humbuckers in. Spanky and loud. 

guitargeek62

A friend of mine’s been using one of these as his main amp for about 15 years, it’s a great little thing - the clean channel is lovely, and as ICBM said, it’s LOUD!!! £70 is a great price, do it! 

joetele

When discussing Xmas presents I told my wife I wanted it. We'll see whether that was taken onboard. 

joetele

Tried it again yesterday - definitely quite loud and rich, but quite trebly which I suppose can be contained with the tone knobs. Oddly on the clean channel it's only got treble and bass dials, but no mid, unlike the gain channel which has all three. Still, for £70. 

Wondering how it takes pedals? 

ICBM

The lack of mid control on the clean channel is quite normal for many amps - it’s perceived as being less important than for overdrive. Several classic Fender amps also don’t have them - Champ, Princeton, Deluxe, Vibrolux etc.

But in fact almost all amps like this do actually have a normal tone stack, it’s just that the mid is preset, with a fixed resistor instead of a pot. The usual value is around 7, so it’s not at all that the amp has ‘no mid’.

You should find the treble control is effective enough to turn down to too dull. The trick is to find the - often very narrow - range where it’s just right. This seems to be a problem with many solid-state amps for some reason.

joetele

ICBM said:

The lack of mid control on the clean channel is quite normal for many amps - it’s perceived as being less important than for overdrive. Several classic Fender amps also don’t have them - Champ, Princeton, Deluxe, Vibrolux etc.

But in fact almost all amps like this do actually have a normal tone stack, it’s just that the mid is preset, with a fixed resistor instead of a pot. The usual value is around 7, so it’s not at all that the amp has ‘no mid’.

You should find the treble control is effective enough to turn down to too dull. The trick is to find the - often very narrow - range where it’s just right. This seems to be a problem with many solid-state amps for some reason.

Indeed. I think I found the sweet spot on Friday. Heck, I even enjoyed the nasty sounding gain channel. Nice and raw. 

JayGee

Youngest Son has a Frontman DSP 100 watt 2x12 combo, which I’m guessing is the larger brother of this one as everything in the description seems to fit.

Quite a few of the modelled sounds are usable if uninspiring, the reverb is actually among the better built-in digital reverbs I’ve heard and the clean side works very well with pedals and doesn’t need any allowances or apologies made for it at all.

There’s a reason that’s it’s still around the house in spite of all sorts of more exalted kit coming and going around it. I thought my Katana 2x12 might displace it at one point but on a couple of occasions it’s been handy to have *another* basically decent sounding cheap and cheerful lightweight and loud combo around the place for jam night “house amp” duties and the like so it stays.

At the price these things go for they’re a no-brainer if you want/need something cheap and cheerful to just chuck in the car as a back-up, for rehearsals, for dodgy gigs, and jam nights...

joetele

JayGee said:

Youngest Son has a Frontman DSP 100 watt 2x12 combo, which I’m guessing is the larger brother of this one as everything in the description seems to fit.

Quite a few of the modelled sounds are usable if uninspiring, the reverb is actually among the better built-in digital reverbs I’ve heard and the clean side works very well with pedals and doesn’t need any allowances or apologies made for it at all.

There’s a reason that’s it’s still around the house in spite of all sorts of more exalted kit coming and going around it. I thought my Katana 2x12 might displace it at one point but on a couple of occasions it’s been handy to have *another* basically decent sounding cheap and cheerful lightweight and loud combo around the place for jam night “house amp” duties and the like so it stays.

At the price these things go for they’re a no-brainer if you want/need something cheap and cheerful to just chuck in the car as a back-up, for rehearsals, for dodgy gigs, and jam nights...

Agreed. I liked the clean tone so much I'd probably record with it 

HAL9000

ICBM said:

I genuinely don’t understand why really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps are so overlooked compared to both modellers and even cheap valve amps, but they are...

^This. I do appreciate that SS amps weigh next to nothing (need to look after my back these days). Unfortunately most manufacturers (and customers?) seem to regard SS as starter or bedroom material and consequently they are built as cheaply as possible with as many voices and effects as possible. Don’t get me wrong - if there’s a market for this then manufacturers would be mad not to exploit it. However, I just want a simple straightforward amp that doesn’t weigh too much and actually sounds good (and doesn’t need to be plugged into a PC to get the best from it).

@icbm - what do regard as ‘really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps’? I'm only aware of a few but I know your knowledge will be far more extensive than mine. The ones that spring to my mind (they’re not all analogue) are the Roland Jazz Chorus, the current Roland Blues Cubes, and the ubiquitous Peavey Bandit. I’ve also heard good things about Quilters.

joetele

HAL9000 said:

ICBM said:

I genuinely don’t understand why really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps are so overlooked compared to both modellers and even cheap valve amps, but they are...

^This. I do appreciate that SS amps weigh next to nothing (need to look after my back these days). Unfortunately most manufacturers (and customers?) seem to regard SS as starter or bedroom material and consequently they are built as cheaply as possible with as many voices and effects as possible. Don’t get me wrong - if there’s a market for this then manufacturers would be mad not to exploit it.

Yeah that's the appeal of the one in the shop -it's solid state, only with a small FX section, rather than a modelling amp. It's just a basic, really good amp, like my old Bandit. I've got the Katana too but I'd love a Fender solid state like this. 

Greatape

HAL9000 said:

ICBM said:

I genuinely don’t understand why really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps are so overlooked compared to both modellers and even cheap valve amps, but they are...

^This. I do appreciate that SS amps weigh next to nothing (need to look after my back these days). Unfortunately most manufacturers (and customers?) seem to regard SS as starter or bedroom material and consequently they are built as cheaply as possible with as many voices and effects as possible. Don’t get me wrong - if there’s a market for this then manufacturers would be mad not to exploit it. However, I just want a simple straightforward amp that doesn’t weigh too much and actually sounds good (and doesn’t need to be plugged into a PC to get the best from it).

@icbm - what do regard as ‘really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps’? I'm only aware of a few but I know your knowledge will be far more extensive than mine. The ones that spring to my mind (they’re not all analogue) are the Roland Jazz Chorus, the current Roland Blues Cubes, and the ubiquitous Peavey Bandit. I’ve also heard good things about Quilters.

Fender Deluxe 112+. 

Shh ..

ICBM

HAL9000 said:

@icbm - what do regard as ‘really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps’? I'm only aware of a few but I know your knowledge will be far more extensive than mine. The ones that spring to my mind (they’re not all analogue) are the Roland Jazz Chorus, the current Roland Blues Cubes, and the ubiquitous Peavey Bandit. I’ve also heard good things about Quilters.

Fender 'Rivera era' models (he did solid-state ones too), Yamaha G50s & 100s (also designed by Rivera!), Laney Linebackers & World Series, Marshall JCM800 solid-state (Lead 12 and upwards), any Peavey, Crates, Randalls, Hughes & Kettner... you can get great sounds out of all those, although some need more work than others!

joetele

ICBM said:

HAL9000 said:

@icbm - what do regard as ‘really good-sounding analogue solid-state amps’? I'm only aware of a few but I know your knowledge will be far more extensive than mine. The ones that spring to my mind (they’re not all analogue) are the Roland Jazz Chorus, the current Roland Blues Cubes, and the ubiquitous Peavey Bandit. I’ve also heard good things about Quilters.

Fender 'Rivera era' models (he did solid-state ones too), Yamaha G50s & 100s (also designed by Rivera!), Laney Linebackers & World Series, Marshall JCM800 solid-state (Lead 12 and upwards), any Peavey, Crates, Randalls, Hughes & Kettner... you can get great sounds out of all those, although some need more work than others!

Agreed re the Peavey. I had a nice one of the recent Bandits but sadly developed a fault whereby the gain channel stopped working properly - didn't want to add gain anymore, just sounded like a slightly louder version of the clean channel. This was before my time on here, where I could have just asked you for your opinion.  

Replaced it with a half price Valveking which served me well for a while.