Using a volume pedal to control gain?

Gassage

Lebarque said:

Gassage said:

Yep, all the time. The key is- to use as a gain adjuster, BEFORE dirt pedals. If you want to use to adjust vol itself, after dirt. I set guitar on 7 or 8 (I am using the EMG strat most of the time at the moment) and the SPC on 5, then everything else off volume pedal.

If you use just the vol pedal and leaving the guit vol on 10, you're missing a trick as you want to crank the amps and pedals but this way you reduce noise. So, guit vol on 7/8 and then use pedal.

Interesting thanks, @Gassage Which volume pedal do you use, out of interest?

Well, I managed, for the princely sum of 100 quid, to score one of the 4 Ernie Balls that Steen Skrydrupt modded for Gilmour,'s last tour, which is an EB big one, 9v powered, with a steel string and a buffer with a settable level. However, the nearest thing to it is the Analogman modded EB VP Jr, which you can normally score for 100 on ebay or reverb. I couldn't tell them apart. I only like EB volume cos of the big sweep on them.

Gassage

@Lebarque - this one. Mike normally has them in stock or can do them quick https://reverb.com/uk/item/10176535-ernie-ball-vp-jr-analog-man-buffer-mod

Lebarque

Gassage said:

@Lebarque - this one. Mike normally has them in stock or can do them quick https://reverb.com/uk/item/10176535-ernie-ball-vp-jr-analog-man-buffer-mod

Cheers. Will have a look

thegummy

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

Winny_Pooh

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

It works best when the amp is compressing and distorting already. 

Kittyfrisk

"I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.
The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate."

So turning down the volume, makes the sound get quieter?

fastonebaz

Linear taper vs audio taper 

Kittyfrisk

I recognise the elements involved in the log/linear effect, but questioned the language phrasing 
Also this is possibly influenced by "quasi" log scale and non precision logarithm pot taper effects.

thegummy

Kittyfrisk said:

"I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.
The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate."

So turning down the volume, makes the sound get quieter?

You trying to be funny or will I actually explain?

Clarky

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

thegummy

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

Clarky

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

it is amazing.. I've been morphing tones for years..
first a little in the GP-16, then the 2120 opened up a whole new range of possibilities..
now with the AxeFX

switching tones and back quickly with an expression pedal is a far nicer experience than switching patches..
and it sounds far better too because the transitions are smooth rather than sudden
on stage if feels really intuitive too

thegummy

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

it is amazing.. I've been morphing tones for years..
first a little in the GP-16, then the 2120 opened up a whole new range of possibilities..
now with the AxeFX

switching tones and back quickly with an expression pedal is a far nicer experience than switching patches..
and it sounds far better too because the transitions are smooth rather than sudden
on stage if feels really intuitive too

Do you have the compressor set to switch on and off or do you have it always on but control the threshold or ratio with the pedal?

PolarityMan

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

So I run into moderately hihg gain so when i roll down I get crunch..in that scenario I find that the transients are alsmot as loud as when the vol is up full so you get a less intense and more articulate tone. 

Clarky

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

it is amazing.. I've been morphing tones for years..
first a little in the GP-16, then the 2120 opened up a whole new range of possibilities..
now with the AxeFX

switching tones and back quickly with an expression pedal is a far nicer experience than switching patches..
and it sounds far better too because the transitions are smooth rather than sudden
on stage if feels really intuitive too

Do you have the compressor set to switch on and off or do you have it always on but control the threshold or ratio with the pedal?

in the AxeFX: toe down [riff and solo] the mix=0
mix is the % dry to wet signal mix where 0=dry, 50= 50% dry / 50% wet, 100=wet]
heel down mix=100
so the comp gets stronger as the tone cleans..
the comp don't start kicking in until the pedal hits the mid-point [because there's enough gain happening from mid to toe rendering comp needless in that part of the pedal range]..

thegummy

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

it is amazing.. I've been morphing tones for years..
first a little in the GP-16, then the 2120 opened up a whole new range of possibilities..
now with the AxeFX

switching tones and back quickly with an expression pedal is a far nicer experience than switching patches..
and it sounds far better too because the transitions are smooth rather than sudden
on stage if feels really intuitive too

Do you have the compressor set to switch on and off or do you have it always on but control the threshold or ratio with the pedal?

in the AxeFX: toe down [riff and solo] the mix=0
mix is the % dry to wet signal mix where 0=dry, 50= 50% dry / 50% wet, 100=wet]
heel down mix=100
so the comp gets stronger as the tone cleans..
the comp don't start kicking in until the pedal hits the mid-point [because there's enough gain happening from mid to toe rendering comp needless in that part of the pedal range]..

Sounds great man

Clarky

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

Clarky said:

thegummy said:

I never have any luck with this kind of thing or using the guitar's volume.

The tone cleans up but the sound also gets so much quieter which I hate.

Is that the normal behaviour and people just put up with it?

I suppose that since I use a digital setup I could set a pedal to control the gain but also inversely control the master volume so that it cleans up but stays the same loudness.

But on a real amp there's rarely that option so do people just accept the volume drop?

Or maybe it works better at gigging volumes where the clean sound is incredibly loud already so the ear's natural compression compensates for how much louder the gain sound is?

that's why I do all this with MIDI
as the expression pedal moves from toe to heel:
- reduce gain
- add compression
- alter EQ [if I need to
- alter level [if I need to]
- add sweeteners [any combination of: reverb, delay, chorus, phaser, tremolo, vibe etc]

what ever combination I choose to do depends on the needs of the song

That actually sounds amazing, kind of like morphing between a clean setting and a gain setting.

I'm only just getting in to PC based guitar processing, the infinite MIDI configurability is something I'll need to get more in to.

it is amazing.. I've been morphing tones for years..
first a little in the GP-16, then the 2120 opened up a whole new range of possibilities..
now with the AxeFX

switching tones and back quickly with an expression pedal is a far nicer experience than switching patches..
and it sounds far better too because the transitions are smooth rather than sudden
on stage if feels really intuitive too

Do you have the compressor set to switch on and off or do you have it always on but control the threshold or ratio with the pedal?

in the AxeFX: toe down [riff and solo] the mix=0
mix is the % dry to wet signal mix where 0=dry, 50= 50% dry / 50% wet, 100=wet]
heel down mix=100
so the comp gets stronger as the tone cleans..
the comp don't start kicking in until the pedal hits the mid-point [because there's enough gain happening from mid to toe rendering comp needless in that part of the pedal range]..

Sounds great man

it really is because it brings a whole new expressive dimension..
you're not simply switching things on / off..
you can 'ride the changes' on the fly..

the config trick is to start with just one thing like gain..
get the working nice.. and then start adding stuff to either solve problems [prevent the cleaned to from thinking etc] and then to sweeten with fx.. adding reverb / delay etc...
it's great fun..
I cannot imagine living without this sort of thing now