Do YOU know how a guitar amp EQ works?

ICBM

I find the idea of not using the full range of the controls quite odd. I don’t have any hesitation in setting any control to full or zero if that’s where it sounds best.

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

I find the idea of not using the full range of the controls quite odd. I don’t have any hesitation in setting any control to full or zero if that’s where it sounds best.

Once again. Curse you & you're bleeding common sense 

impmann

I once visited Marshall back in the day where the guys there said for any older Marshall dime all the tone controls and then roll back whatever sounds bad to you. Thats because on those amps, the tone controls attenuate therefore if the controls aren't most of the way up, you won't get the full output. It works for old Marshalls IMHO but not for Fenders (for example).

The quote above regarding EQ is mine. My point is with modellers, they've modelled the tone stacks of all the classic amps... so you need to approach them the same way as you would the real thing... but few do. Also, most people set EQ on programmable modellers at home in isolation - get them out in a live environment and the nice smooth, harmonically rich sound dialled in gets lost in the splash of the drums and the boom of the bass. And when recording, the vast majority of the 'magic' of valve amps when recorded is due to mic position, EQ and mic - with a healthy dollop of post production. Approach your use of modelling in a similar way and you can't fail to get great sounds.

ICBM

impmann said:

I once visited Marshall back in the day where the guys there said for any older Marshall dime all the tone controls and then roll back whatever sounds bad to you. Thats because on those amps, the tone controls attenuate therefore if the controls aren't most of the way up, you won't get the full output. It works for old Marshalls IMHO but not for Fenders (for example).

Marshalls and most Fenders have exactly the same type of tone stacks. (With some differences in component values.) In fact almost all amps have passive, attenuating tone stacks - active stacks are very rare in guitar amps and are not generally popular because they can sound odd and are typically more 'touchy' to dial in compared to traditional passive ones.

But there is a major difference in that later Fenders (not Tweeds) do have the tone stack much earlier in the circuit than Marshalls - all the amps derived from the 5F6-A Bassman circuit (Marshall, Soldano, Mesa Rectifier etc) have it after where some, or all if the master volume turned down, of the distortion is generated, whereas BF Fenders and amps derived from them (eg Mark series Boogies) have it before any distortion - which does also make them more touchy.

welshboyo

So..that Matt Schofield technique - how do you do it - do you start with Bass Control (all others at 0) and find the sweet spot, leave it there and move on to the Mid etc etc or do you start with all at 0, find the sweet spot for each one, remember them and then set at end?

John_A

ICBM said:

I find the idea of not using the full range of the controls quite odd. I don’t have any hesitation in setting any control to full or zero if that’s where it sounds best.

Exactly - JTM45 with Les Paul & bass control at 12:00 = Flub, Bass off  = wonderful (to my ears at least)

Philtre

Playing solo at home, up goes the Bass knob. In a band, down she goes.

Rowby1

@Clecko nearly started a thread with exactly the same question. 

My approach is use my ears and fiddle with the controls until I’m happy, no science involved at all. 

As an aside, I have noticed that by lowering the bass control I can get what I assume is just a perceived increase in clean headroom. Is it just my perception or does lowering the bass control actually give the amp more clean headroom? Seems the same for my Egnater Tweaker, DRRI and MJW.

meltedbuzzbox

ICBM said:

5 if they go from 1 to 10.

Dont fenders lose volume below 5 on the eq stack?

I cant remember if that's a twin only thing

ICBM

Rowby1 said:

As an aside, I have noticed that by lowering the bass control I can get what I assume is just a perceived increase in clean headroom. Is it just my perception or does lowering the bass control actually give the amp more clean headroom? Seems the same for my Egnater Tweaker, DRRI and MJW.

Yes, it does - by lowering the bass you're reducing the amount of bottom end going into the following stages, so they won't overdrive quite as early.

meltedbuzzbox said:

Dont fenders lose volume below 5 on the eq stack?

I cant remember if that's a twin only thing

All amps with passive tone stacks lose volume at some settings, especially if you turn all of them down at the same time. Depending on the exact configuration of the mid control, they may go to silent with them all at zero - most Fenders with mid controls do, although Marshalls don't.

PolarityMan

ICBM said:

I find the idea of not using the full range of the controls quite odd. I don’t have any hesitation in setting any control to full or zero if that’s where it sounds best.

I sometimes need the full range to make sure that the presence is always pointing towards mecca

PolarityMan

ICBM said:

impmann said:

I once visited Marshall back in the day where the guys there said for any older Marshall dime all the tone controls and then roll back whatever sounds bad to you. Thats because on those amps, the tone controls attenuate therefore if the controls aren't most of the way up, you won't get the full output. It works for old Marshalls IMHO but not for Fenders (for example).

Marshalls and most Fenders have exactly the same type of tone stacks. (With some differences in component values.) In fact almost all amps have passive, attenuating tone stacks - active stacks are very rare in guitar amps and are not generally popular because they can sound odd and are typically more 'touchy' to dial in compared to traditional passive ones.

But there is a major difference in that later Fenders (not Tweeds) do have the tone stack much earlier in the circuit than Marshalls - all the amps derived from the 5F6-A Bassman circuit (Marshall, Soldano, Mesa Rectifier etc) have it after where some, or all if the master volume turned down, of the distortion is generated, whereas BF Fenders and amps derived from them (eg Mark series Boogies) have it before any distortion - which does also make them more touchy.

Interesting sd it kinda naturally demonstrates why a tube screamer became so popular with a specific demographic. 

Funkfingers

ICBM said:
almost all amps have passive, attenuating tone stacks

Correct.

The Cornell Romany Plus has an EQ Cut switch. Bypassing the tone stack makes the amplifier noticeably louder. (Shades of 5F1 Champ.)

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

The Cornell Romany Plus has an EQ Cut switch. Bypassing the tone stack makes the amplifier noticeably louder.

Mesa use an overly large mid control value on some amps too - 250K log instead of 25K linear which would be a more normal value - and since the whole tone stack goes through the mid control to ground, when the control is turned up above halfway it starts to reduce the tone stack loss and acts as an extra 'gain' control as well.

NelsonP

My amp came with a thing called a manual. It has some helpful tips:

TREBLE This is the most powerful of the three rotary tone controls. At high settings (7 ½ and

above) it will appear to minimize the effect of the Bass and Middle controls. But they will become the

stronger controls when the Treble is set below 5. For those who split hairs tonally and want the very

best, most bubbly and funky clean tones, you should find the exact spot on the Treble where all three

tone controls are balanced. This will usually be somewhere between 5 and 7.

When playing hard-core crunch, especially at very soft practice volumes, the 50 will usually sound

better with the Treble and Presence set quite high. This will help produce sustain and harmonic

jumps at soft playing levels.

For silky, warm and round jazz tones, run the .50 Caliber in the Rhythm mode with the Treble set low

and the Bass and Middle turned up higher. Add sparkle with the Presence control.

BASS, MIDDLE You've already read our recommendations for these settings in the TREBLE section

above, and because the tone controls are interactive, all three must be set together.

That "sweet spot" setting for maximal funky clean tones also depends on the right amount of Bass

and Middle. Settings of 4 to 6 for both of these controls will usually provide the best balance against

"that perfect Treble setting" where the tone is springy and bright but not "hard" sounding.

The Bass and Middle response has been very carefully designed to allow fatness in the Rhythm

mode while avoiding tubbiness or flab when footswitching to a crunch, lead or metal tone.

stimpsonslostson

I know that the further I turn the Master Volume anti-clockwise the happier MrsLostSon is with my playing.

Philtre

Some people actually don't know what Bass and Treble are. I once sold an amp to a punter who wanted to know what the "Bass" knob was for. He pronounced it like the fish. I told him it helps to keep the guitar in Tuna.

Sadly, that is a true story.

imalrightjack

Minor tweaks from 12 o’clock but not with any understanding or knowledge. 

Then I got a Mesa Mark V:25. And was lost.

Now on Helix, post-Kemper, and happy enough. Still don’t know how to tweak but get by.

jeztone2

I tend to set it up to taste. Then adjust once I’m in a room with a drummer. What sounds good on it’s own probably won’t cut it in a live band context. 

Also it’s about the other instruments. If Im in a two guitar band. There’s more to consider than if I’m the only guitar player. That tends to affect my choice of instruments too. 

NelsonP

imalrightjack said:

Minor tweaks from 12 o’clock but not with any understanding or knowledge. 

Then I got a Mesa Mark V:25. And was lost.

Now on Helix, post-Kemper, and happy enough. Still don’t know how to tweak but get by.

My tone training by Mesa (above) means that I still want to set Bass and Middle at 3-4 and treble at 6-7 on everything.
This doesn't work very well on my Atomic Amplifire.