Help me up my soloing game

JAYJO

not_the_dj said:

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All true.

I'm dreading the day another guitarist come up to me at a gig and says "you really shoud learn a second scale, all your solos are the same.."

(hangs head in shame)

 

Then you say Fck OFF.  Go stick your head up your arse and see if they sound the same then!!

EricTheWeary

mike_l said:

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All to be done with the best possible taste of course...
|)

Does that get me fired from a guitar forum?
:-O

Not fired. But you do have to record and let us all hear exactly what you mean........

Ha! No... :o3

mike_l

not_the_dj said:

I'm dreading the day another guitarist come up to me at a gig and says "you really shoud learn a second scale, all your solos are the same.."

(hangs head in shame)

 

I'm waiting for someone to say "you really should learn a scale shape, your solo's are all shite.

 

Maybe it's the sawnoff shotgun I keep near me at all times that puts people off

mike_l

Jalapeno said:

Clarky tip - play min Pentatonic up 2 frets for Myxolydian - you already know the fingering and licks !

F'kin genius

JAYJO

For more pentatonic info Try Steve Khans Pentatonic Khancepts. (Book)

guitarfishbay

Write it in your head, figure out how to play it later. I find if I write a solo with a guitar in my hands it often ends up being less interesting. Sometimes I write my solos out on a keyboard because it makes me think differently to a guitar.

viz

Wizdom

viz

And not only for solos - for music generally.

Barney

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....

Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..

Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...

monquixote

Barney said:

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....

Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..

Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...

Yeah I've been working on some of that stuff since you posted about it before. Trying to move patterns up or down a fret to go out and then come back in again. 

I'm also interested in using the "wrong" pentatonics. Shifting down two for a Mixolydian, or using the pentatonics up a fourth or a fifth to give interesting sounds with the same riffs. 

digitalscream

Wasn't sure whether to put this up here 'cos it might seem like too much self-promotion, but here's part of a PM conversation between myself and monquixote that he thought should be in here...

~~~~~~~~~

...generally, when I'm writing solos I find the hardest parts to get right are the beginning, end and "second act".

To my mind, there are three ways to start a solo (for the type of music I play, anyway) - tuneful, wailing and fast. For the exit, I'll finish on a dead stop, a held note (preferably into feedback, 'cos that's rock man) or I'll repeat a theme from earlier in the song to take it back into the vocals.

I don't have a good example right now of the wailing start, but I'm pretty sure you can imagine what it entails. For the tuneful approach, I'll usually go for a simple theme which involves the key modal notes. Exhibit A:

http://www.digitalscream.org.uk/music/cc/sunset_of_red.mp3 (solo @ 2:05)

From there, I can choose where I want the bulk of the solo to be on the fretboard and just work my way up to it; at that point, it just becomes whatever licks fit the song (I really have only two approaches there - subtle and melodic, or utter-lack-of-taste). In this one, I also finished on a more sustain-y version of the theme that I used for the verses and carry that on under the choruses.

Exhibit B is the fast start approach coupled with the hold-it-into-feedback exit (minus the feedback on the recording):

http://www.digitalscream.org.uk/music/cc/god_help_me.mp3 (solo @ 2:03 ish)

You'll note that this one very much follows the utter-lack-of-taste track. It's also one of those annoying solos with a second act - just as you've run out of steam (and licks) and you're ready for the end, the rest of the band carries on and you realise you're only half way through. For that, I find that the only solution is more silliness. No, I have no maturity when it comes to playing lead.

~~~~~~~~

guitarfishbay

I definitely think the first two bars are the hardest.  It usually takes me a while to think of something and then once I've got that I can write the rest of the solo much more easily.

I often think 'what would Marty Friedman/George Lynch/Brian May do?' and start from there, but I play heavier rock music so pick whatever influences work for you.  Sometimes in my head I've got some wicked massive hair dos while thinking up guitar solos though.

Barney

monquixote;257560" said:

Barney said:

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....



Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..



Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...





Yeah I've been working on some of that stuff since you posted about it before. Trying to move patterns up or down a fret to go out and then come back in again.  

I think the best way to make this work is by playing everything like you mean it with good timing and using patterns......a good thing to try is a standard Aminor pentatonic in 5th position...start normaly on TopC...going down...but on the B string move up a fret ...then back down on the next string ect and finish on A note for resolution.....then start using the same idea with various patterns

monquixote

Oooh cheers dude I'll try that. 

I think playing with conviction when you are flying by the seat of your pants is half the battle

viz

Exactly. At my last greg howe lesson he told me that most of the time it's like he's just on the point of falling over and just managing to recover his balance in time. And it certainly doesn't sound like it. Whenever he's playing jazz notes he calls it "playing outside"

digitalscream

viz said:

Exactly. At my last greg howe lesson he told me that most of the time it's like he's just on the point of falling over and just managing to recover his balance in time. And it certainly doesn't sound like it. Whenever he's playing jazz notes he calls it "playing outside"

Really? That's heartening. I thought I was the only one who's constantly on the edge of totally losing it every time I play.

Trouble is, people really do notice when I screw the pooch, and it's never really within the realms of being able to call it jazz

ThePrettyDamned

viz said:

On the dominant (V) chord try this, it's awesome. Go up a semitone and play the melodic minor. In fact, if you're playing blues in E, B is the dominant, so go to the 7th fret, up an octave to the 4th string 9th fret, that's a B; then go up a semitone, put your first finger on the 10th fret, get ready to play, and try this scale:

10, 12, 13 (4th string)
10, 12, 13 (3rd string)
10, 12, 13 (2nd string)
10, 11, 13 (1st string) (NOTE THE 11!)

Then back down again. You can do it very fast. It's an approximation of the melodic minor. At the bottom of that scale again you have to finish off by sliding down one more semitone, back onto the B. The whole run should be done very fast, up and down once, within the time the B dominant chord is playing. It's a great effect.

I have used this idea over a straight ahead heavy rock riff in D minor and it worked fine.  Never thought of why, I just thought of it as a pentatonic lick with extra notes played quick enough they hardly matter to the overall feel...

I'll take it down two frets next time and see how that sounds.