This is the age of the grain.

Caffeine_Vampire

So I'm killing time, googling guitar related nonsense and I come across a theory that the direction of the grain on the back of a LP body assists in the travel of the note played and therefore has better sustain/tonal advantages.  The straighter the grain, the easier the sound 'travels' through the guitar whereas the 'curvier' the grain, the longer the note has to decay as it consults its A-Z before moving on.

I spilt my coffee laughing.

Anyone up the ante? 

ICBM

The reasoning given there is bollocks, but there may be something in the idea that the grain direction - or cut of the wood - makes a difference to the resonance of the body.

One of the highly-regarded amp builders in the USA reckons that for a single-piece mahogany body like a Les Paul Junior, the best sound comes from a body which is cut so it has an arch in the grain facing towards the bridge side, like the piece marked 'slab' here, if the bridge is on the top...



Whether there is any real truth in that I don't know - but the best-sounding modern LP Junior I've played had a body exactly like that. Coincidence?

In a Standard I think it's much more of a stretch, since the maple cap will have a large effect on the resonance of the back piece.

skunkwerx

Dafuq.... 

I'd have thought if the tones go round all  the curvier grains they'd be soaked up quicker lol. 

Caffeine_Vampire

@ICBM Interesting.  I may owe my coffee an apology.

Philly_Q

There was a Tim Pierce video the other day with Howard Leese.  It was too long and frankly a bit boring to watch the whole thing, but I think at one point Howard was saying that LPs with a particular type of grain in the mahogany sound better.

It may be the same thing you heard.

Perdix

Wouldn't the curved grain in the slab cut cause the body to bow?

Strat_a_tat_tat

ICBM said:

The reasoning given there is bollocks, but there may be something in the idea that the grain direction - or cut of the wood - makes a difference to the resonance of the body.

One of the highly-regarded amp builders in the USA reckons that for a single-piece mahogany body like a Les Paul Junior, the best sound comes from a body which is cut so it has an arch in the grain facing towards the bridge side, like the piece marked 'slab' here, if the bridge is on the top...



Whether there is any real truth in that I don't know - but the best-sounding modern LP Junior I've played had a body exactly like that. Coincidence?

In a Standard I think it's much more of a stretch, since the maple cap will have a large effect on the resonance of the back piece.

This technique is recognised for producing guitars that have a more rounded tone.
"How 'round' is the ideal tone?", I hear you ask.
About 7 inch radius is a good rule of thumb.  Any rounder... and the guitar may only be suitable for playing classic hits by the 70s band Curved Air.

maltingsaudio

I’m sure it’s the way the wood is cut and treated in the first place must have some effect on the tone, it was explained to me by the bloke at JJ Hucke guitars years ago. Think about it a tree grows with a circular grain for many years, then in one cut through the grain all the pressure on the grain is released. The result would be different for each piece. I suppose extending this theory it could be argued that every piece of wood is a laminate?

Caffeine_Vampire

As i edge cautiously closer to the world of guitar building i'm finding my own thread unexpectedly fascinating...

RaymondLin

Anyone tried a MDF guitar? 

ICBM

RaymondLin said:

Anyone tried a MDF guitar? 

Yes - Ibanez Talman. They sound perfectly OK, although not amazingly characterful in my opinion.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

RaymondLin said:

Anyone tried a MDF guitar? 

Yes - Ibanez Talman. They sound perfectly OK, although not amazingly characterful in my opinion.

I wouldn't want to route (rout?) it to fit a pickup or something.  MDF is horrible stuff.

merciful-evans

I have this guitar. Its made from plastic. Its grain structure is injection molded.

John Robson demo link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt861CMoc5M&t=40s 

Roland

@Rabs ;

richardhomer

Lovely nod to the old British Rail ad....

HAL9000

maltingsaudio said:

Think about it a tree grows with a circular grain for many years, then in one cut through the grain all the pressure on the grain is released.

What 'pressure on the grain'? Surely that would only make sense if the tree had previously been a different shape and then subsequently forced into having a circular grain. 

Rabs

Roland said:

@Rabs ;

Hmm.. Not sure what to add to this...  Apart from I probably have to agree that every piece of wood is different.. Its one of the reasons why every guitar is just slightly different.

Its true that as you cut wood it releases stresses in the fibers which is why it bows and twists sometimes.. But usually once you cut it and then thickness it, a guitar body sized piece of wood shouldn't move again.. Much    Quarter sawing wood does help with all of this but even that doesn't guarantee that it wont move.. Some pieces just don't want to play ball no matter what you do to them. Also the moisture content plays a big part... All of the wood I work with is generally kiln or air dried to about 8-10% mc... A wetter (or greener) piece is way more likely to move as it dries. So there are things you can do to help as much as one can with wood (it can be a right pain in the arse when building a big table like this, you absolutely have to account for wood movement when the pieces are this long).

https://i.imgur.com/NZ6YjHd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xaZ4aH3.jpg

stephen.wood125

ICBM said:

The reasoning given there is bollocks, but there may be something in the idea that the grain direction - or cut of the wood - makes a difference to the resonance of the body.

One of the highly-regarded amp builders in the USA reckons that for a single-piece mahogany body like a Les Paul Junior, the best sound comes from a body which is cut so it has an arch in the grain facing towards the bridge side, like the piece marked 'slab' here, if the bridge is on the top...



Whether there is any real truth in that I don't know - but the best-sounding modern LP Junior I've played had a body exactly like that. Coincidence?

In a Standard I think it's much more of a stretch, since the maple cap will have a large effect on the resonance of the back piece.

Agreed, wood strength and I guess extrapolating resonance is altered. hence the best pieces of furniture are usually from quartersawn wood, more dimensionally stable and less prone to moisture variances and more importantly, cupping. That seems to be totally at odds with the flat sawn example above. Rift sawn is a compromise as QS is the least "productive" of all methods. 

Dominic

Tokai went through a period of building SG s and Les Pauls with laminated slices of wood where each layer (5mm thick) was set with the grain running 90 degrees to the one beneath .Apparently this was done after some serious scientific research and the result was apparently very lauded.
To me I think it's all a load of nonsense .

Philly_Q

Dominic said:

Tokai went through a period of building SG s and Les Pauls with laminated slices of wood where each layer (5mm thick) was set with the grain running 90 degrees to the one beneath .Apparently this was done after some serious scientific research and the result was apparently very lauded.
To me I think it's all a load of nonsense .

The S.E.B. construction.  It sounded like a way of using up offcuts...

merciful-evans

Dominic said:

Tokai went through a period of building SG s and Les Pauls with laminated slices of wood where each layer (5mm thick) was set with the grain running 90 degrees to the one beneath .Apparently this was done after some serious scientific research and the result was apparently very lauded.
To me I think it's all a load of nonsense .

The principle is good. The same as multi piece necks minimising movement. Its the same principle as plywood, but with thicker layers and maybe better wood. 

The only rational criticism I have heard of plywood is that contains too much glue. The glue can affect weight and may affect tone. I dont profess to know, but I am sceptical. I did use a plywood Washburn for home practice for 18 years. It sounded pretty good. A lot of the time we equate cost with quality/function, but it doesn't necessarily follow.