Are 'Metal Guitars' actually different?

ROOG

professorben said:

ROOG said:

hollywoodrox said:

I do love pointy guitars (well pointy head stocks ) Jackson ,bc rich ESP .

The look is growing on me too. 

As I don't own a tremolo equipped guitar at the mo, would a guitar fitted with a Floyd Rose be a reasonable place to start? Then I can do the whole pointy thing plus tremolo all in one.  :0)

Absolutely. 

But as with anything low quality bites harder the more complicated anything becomes. 

The new Genesis RG reissues are great, but if you don’t want to spend a lot you can pick up a Japanese made RG with a top quality trem system and prob upgraded Pickups for around £3-400. 

mbe said:

Jackson is your friend.

Compound radius fretboards coupled with the Belcat pickups in the entry level JS series which have more fire in their bellies than the low end Ibanez efforts. 

Cheers chaps, thank you for your words of encouragement, I shall check out Jackson, Ibanez, and ESP pointy guitars next time I am allowed out on my own! 

I am quite excited at the prospect of something new to 'waggle' 

sw67

It could be just the guitars i was looking at but most had poor resale value from new - great used buy though if you can find a good one thats not trashed

ROOG

sw67 said:

It could be just the guitars i was looking at but most had poor resale value from new - great used buy though if you can find a good one thats not trashed

@sw67 There do seem to be a few about and  I get the impression they don't have quite the same long global collectable value that traditional guitars seem to. 

ICBM

I love the idea of playing a dayglo or floral Jem in some completely inappropriate context, like an alt/country band .

The sound of them is probably tuned more for higher gain, but Vai does often play clean tones with them too, even if they're not quite the traditional loose/glassy Fender Strat type.

The Floyd is definitely different-sounding to a Strat, Jaguar/Jazzmaster or Bigsby because it both has a more abrupt action (bigger pitch change with smaller arm movement) and a more 'precise' bending effect on chords (because all the strings are almost exactly the same length, unlike with a non-locking system - so they stay in better relative tune) so you have to be quite subtle with it if you want it to sound more traditional, but it can be done.

skullfunkerry

My experience of superstrats is generally that you can sell them for a good price, or quickly; but not both

RustySpanner

Having recently bought an RG550, all I can say is that it's a superb guitar, regardless of what you choose to play on it. 

It's perfectly clean and articulate if you turn the volume down, the Edge trem works a treat and the neck is comfy for chords - for me anyway. 

I play simple chords on mine. No one's died yet. 

OilCityPickups

A point here is that 'metal' is such a huge 'catch-all' term these days that there is no one 'metal guitar'. Technical metal and progressive metal players for example seem to fall more towards Strandburg or Black Machine, doom players seem to gravitate to more traditional guitars with lower output pickups (and walls of fuzz). Very few genres these days (unless we are talking 80s revival cover bands) feature much 'dive bomb' action, so the Floyd seems a little 'over gunning' these days. Extended range, fan fret instruments are very much in evidence ... and everyone seems to tune so low it kills earthworms! 

Vibetronic

OilCityPickups said:

Technical metal and progressive metal players for example seem to fall more towards Strandburg or Black Machine, 

That's a good point - I got a Strandberg 7 exactly for playing that sort of music, mainly because it's so much better than what was available before. Multi-scale/fanned frets - sounds better, tunes better, wider range of tones etc. I love my old Universe but if the development of the instrument means there's something available that does the job better then it's all good. I do have an old 80's Tele with locking trem that does metal very well too though

OilCityPickups

Vibetronic said:

OilCityPickups said:

Technical metal and progressive metal players for example seem to fall more towards Strandburg or Black Machine, 

That's a good point - I got a Strandberg 7 exactly for playing that sort of music, mainly because it's so much better than what was available before. Multi-scale/fanned frets - sounds better, tunes better, wider range of tones etc. I love my old Universe but if the development of the instrument means there's something available that does the job better then it's all good. I do have an old 80's Tele with locking trem that does metal very well too though

Nowadays I supply more and more pickups for instruments like this Stone Wolf (or for that matter the Black Machine @FelineGuitars post. The guitar is evolving for certain genres certainly. Tight bottom end response is far more important than when I was playing 'metal' in the late 70s and 80s ... hence our work with guitar makers (here and in the US) on hybrid magnet designs that use combinations of neodymium, ceramic and alnico.

Vibetronic

OilCityPickups said:

Vibetronic said:

OilCityPickups said:

Technical metal and progressive metal players for example seem to fall more towards Strandburg or Black Machine, 

That's a good point - I got a Strandberg 7 exactly for playing that sort of music, mainly because it's so much better than what was available before. Multi-scale/fanned frets - sounds better, tunes better, wider range of tones etc. I love my old Universe but if the development of the instrument means there's something available that does the job better then it's all good. I do have an old 80's Tele with locking trem that does metal very well too though

Nowadays I supply more and more pickups for instruments like this Stone Wolf (or for that matter the Black Machine @FelineGuitars post. The guitar is evolving for certain genres certainly. Tight bottom end response is far more important than when I was playing 'metal' in the late 70s and 80s ... hence our work with guitar makers (here and in the US) on hybrid magnet designs that use combinations of neodymium, ceramic and alnico.

Yep - the tightness makes a big difference to sound and playability! Funny you should mention that - I did some work ages ago for a company that make neodymium pickups. Didn't realise they were more widespread now!

OilCityPickups

Vibetronic said:

OilCityPickups said:

Vibetronic said:

OilCityPickups said:

Technical metal and progressive metal players for example seem to fall more towards Strandburg or Black Machine, 

That's a good point - I got a Strandberg 7 exactly for playing that sort of music, mainly because it's so much better than what was available before. Multi-scale/fanned frets - sounds better, tunes better, wider range of tones etc. I love my old Universe but if the development of the instrument means there's something available that does the job better then it's all good. I do have an old 80's Tele with locking trem that does metal very well too though

Nowadays I supply more and more pickups for instruments like this Stone Wolf (or for that matter the Black Machine @FelineGuitars post. The guitar is evolving for certain genres certainly. Tight bottom end response is far more important than when I was playing 'metal' in the late 70s and 80s ... hence our work with guitar makers (here and in the US) on hybrid magnet designs that use combinations of neodymium, ceramic and alnico.

Yep - the tightness makes a big difference to sound and playability! Funny you should mention that - I did some work ages ago for a company that make neodymium pickups. Didn't realise they were more widespread now!

Neo pickups aren't very widespread due to issues with the extreme amount of treble they produce in addition to the bass. Neos have become very popular in bass pickups, where the unwanted top end is not an issue, We took a research and development path that has lead to 'hybrid' neodymium pickups: using combination magnet loads to use the best features of multiple magnet materials in one pickup: neo/ceramic or neo/alnico for example.

Vibetronic

OilCityPickups said:

Vibetronic said:

Neo pickups aren't very widespread due to issues with the extreme amount of treble they produce in addition to the bass. Neos have become very popular in bass pickups, where the unwanted top end is not an issue, We took a research and development path that has lead to 'hybrid' neodymium pickups: using combination magnet loads to use the best features of multiple magnet materials in one pickup: neo/ceramic or neo/alnico for example.

ah, cool - that makes sense. The ones I demo'd were very very bright indeed. I did like them, but they needed quite careful handling...can see a combination would make more sense. 

OilCityPickups

The great advantage with neos is in the time it takes for a magnetic field to return to 'shape' after a string has vibrated. all magnets have a 'recovery' time: alnico has the longest, ceramic is faster, neodymium has virtually no recovery time. A short recovery time means a tighter, 'faster tracking' bottom end. We've been working extensively with neos because for much 'modern metal' bass response is far more important than it ever used to be. 

Creed_Clicks

ESP Ltd did some hybrid style tele about 15 years ago. I should have bought one then. I’d play it all day long and would have no problem with a LTD Viper either for non metal music.
i couldn’t imagine myself with a Jackson V but could with a gibson style...

ROOG

OilCityPickups said:

The great advantage with neos is in the time it takes for a magnetic field to return to 'shape' after a string has vibrated. all magnets have a 'recovery' time: alnico has the longest, ceramic is faster, neodymium has virtually no recovery time. A short recovery time means a tighter, 'faster tracking' bottom end. We've been working extensively with neos because for much 'modern metal' bass response is far more important than it ever used to be. 

So is it that, pickups fitted with neo magnets sound different because they damp the vibration of the strings quicker? 

I assume that pickups which use neo magnets dont generally get fitted as stock to off the shelf guitars? 

  

OilCityPickups

ROOG said:

OilCityPickups said:

The great advantage with neos is in the time it takes for a magnetic field to return to 'shape' after a string has vibrated. all magnets have a 'recovery' time: alnico has the longest, ceramic is faster, neodymium has virtually no recovery time. A short recovery time means a tighter, 'faster tracking' bottom end. We've been working extensively with neos because for much 'modern metal' bass response is far more important than it ever used to be. 

So is it that, pickups fitted with neo magnets sound different because they damp the vibration of the strings quicker? 

I assume that pickups which use neo magnets dont generally get fitted as stock to off the shelf guitars? 

  

Its not that the magnets damp the strings more ... it's that the magnet is 'ready' to produce the full attack of the note faster.

I'm sure we will see more neo based pickups fitted as 'stock' in the future ... its an emerging technology.